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Iyo mutagira ubuyobozi bwiza, nta gihugu mwari kuba mufite: Umunya-Nigeria Olojede yahanuye Abanyarwanda

Yanditswe na J. Claude Mugenzi, Mugisha Christian
Kuya 24 May 2024 saa 07:43
Yasuwe :

Umunyamakuru wo muri Nigeria wanatsindiye ibihembo bitandukanye Dele Olojede, yagiriye inama Abanyarwanda yo gusigasira ubuyobozi bwiza bafite, no kwirinda ko ibimaze kugerwaho nyuma ya Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi byasubira inyuma.

Uyu mugabo w’imyaka 63 ni we munyamakuru wa mbere wavukiye muri Afurika wegukanye igihembo cya Pulitzer mu 2005, abikesha inkuru nyinshi yagiye yandika mu kinyamakuru Newsday zijyanye na Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi mu 1994.

Ni we muntu wafashe iya mbere mu kugaragaza ibikorwa bibi by’Interahamwe bijyanye no gufata ku ngufu no kwica urubozo Abatutsi mu 1994, abimurikira amahanga ngo amenye neza ibyabaye mu gihugu.

Olojede yaganiriye na IGIHE, agaruka ku rugendo rwe mu gukurikirana Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi, uko yabonye imirimo y’Inkiko Gacaca, urugendo rw’u Rwanda rwo kwiyubaka, amakimbirane yo mu Burasirazuba bwa RDC n’ibindi.

IGIHE: Watangira utwibwira muri make, birashoboka ko hari uruhande rwawe abantu benshi batazi?

Sinzi niba hari ibidasanzwe bitandukanye no kuba ubuzima bwanjye akenshi busobanurwa n’akazi nkora k’ubunyamakuru n’ubwanditsi, ariko buriya hanze y’akazi ushobora kunyita umukinnyi wa Golf, utaragize amahirwe yo kugera kure ariko ukibigerageza.

Igice kinini cy’ubuzima bwanjye nakimaze muri Afurika y’Epfo, nkaba nkunda kuza mu Rwanda kubera impamvu zinyuranye, ariko cyane cyane kubera ko mba nshaka kwiyibutsa ubushobozi bw’ikiremwamuntu bwo kwikura mu mwobo mubi cyane bakabasha kwiyubakira ahazaza.

Nk’umunyamakuru mpuzamahanga wazengurutse Isi, n’iki cyatumye ukunda u Rwanda?

Ndatekereza ko iryo curaburindi ari ryo ryatangije uyu mubano niba ariko navuga. Numvise nshishikajwe no kumenya uko ariya mahano yabaye nkabyumva ariko nanone nkasobanukirwa n’uburyo abantu babasha kubirenga byose, bagahitamo inzira inyuranye, ifite ahazaza heza hatandukanye n’ibyabaye mu 1994.

Ubwo wandikaga inkuru wise ‘The legacy of hate’ wigiyemo iki icyo gihe?

Icyo gihe uvuga ni mu myaka 20 ishize, hari hashize imyaka icumi Jenoside ihagaritswe. Numvise ari ingenzi cyane kugaruka muri ibyo bihe kuko wari wo mwanya wo kumenya neza ibyari byabaye mu myaka icumi yabanje.

Urumva nk’icyo gihe icyo uba ukora ni ugutangaza ibyo ubona ariko udafite ishusho ngari yabyo. Muri iyo myaka rero nibwo natekereje ko imyaka icumi nyuma ya Jenoside ari igihe cyiza cyo gushaka kumva neza ibyabaye.

Icyo nagerageje ni ugushingira inkuru zanjye ku nkuru z’abantu bwite no kumva sosiyete ngari muri rusange. Urugero nagiye muri za gereza igihe benshi mu bahamijwe ibyaha bya Jenoside bari bafunze, bari hafi ibihumbi 90 nkaganira nabo mbere y’uko bajya muri za Gacaca, nyuma bagasubira mu buzima busanzwe.

Nagiye muri za gereza nyinshi, nshaka kumva igituma umuntu ahitamo kwica uwo bashakanye, umuturanyi cyangwa umwarimu agatererana umunyeshuri cyangwa ugasanga nka Padiri yatereranye umuyoboke we, nshaka kumenya ngo ni iki koko gituma umuntu akora ibyo?

[…] Hari umuntu twahuriye muri gereza washinjijwe kwica umugore we wari Umututsi. Twaricaranye mu mbuga ya gereza hafi igice cy’umunsi cyose. Twaganiriye amasaha menshi nkajya nkomeza mubaza icyatumye yica umugore we.

Yabanje guceceka ho gato, ariyumvira, ambwira ko na we byamufataga igihe kugira ngo abyiyumvishe. Yambwiye ko hari Interahamwe zahoraga zisaba abantu kuziyungaho amanywa n’ijoro mu kwica abantu, abagore n’abana babo.

Yambwiye ko yamaze ibyumweru bibiri yifashe, bakomeza kumutera ubwoba ko bazamutema amaguru, bamubwira ko ari kugambanira Hutu Power, nyuma ambwira ko yaje kunanizwa nabyo yica umugore we.

Narabanje ndatuza nyuma mubaza ibyakurikiyeho nyuma yo kwica umugore we, ambwira ko byamubohoreye kwica n’abandi benshi, avuga ko iyo wateye intambwe ya mbere ibindi bikurikira biba byoroshye cyane […] Byatumye ntangira kubona impamvu yatumye abantu bijandika mu mabi.

Nk’umuntu wabaye mu Burayi uzi neza uko inzego z’ubutabera zikora, utekereza iki kuri Gacaca?

Ni icyerekezo gishimishije wakerekezamo igihugu, ariko nanone navuga ko u Rwanda rwari rufite andi mahirwe kuko rwari ruri mu bihe bya nyuma y’icyaha cyakozwe na benshi mu baturage bacyo mu buryo bumwe cyangwa ubundi. Hari abagiye bereka ahihishe abantu, abatanga abandi, n’abandi.

Ibyo bigahura n’uko u Rwanda rwari rufite igihano cy’urupfu, ukibaza ngo ‘Ese uzica abantu benshi cyane bagize igihugu?’ Mu by’ukuri icyo nticyari ikintu kizima cyo gukora ahubwo uba ugomba guhita ushaka ubundi buryo budafite icyo butwaye.

Ologede agaragaza ko u Rwanda rwagize amahirwe y'ubuyobozi bwiza nyuma ya Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi

Ubwo buryo bwagombaga gufasha abantu kwemera ibyo bakoze ari nako harebwa uko hakubakwa ahazaza heza kuko abantu baba bafite kubaho, abana bakeneye kwiga no kurya […]Urumva aho kumera nk’abandi ngo uvuge ngo uriya yishe benshi bityo akatirwe igihano cyo gufungwa burundu, ahubwo habayeho kuvuga ngo ‘Kuki tutahuriza hamwe abantu bose hanyuma abakoze ibyaha n’ababikorewe bakahahurira’.

Navuga ko rero ari uburyo budasanzwe bwahiswemo gukoreshwa kandi koko nibyo byari bikwiriye umuyobozi w’umuhanga kuko ubundi buryo nanone bwari kongera kumena amaraso.

Archbishop Tutu yajyaga avuga ngo “guhora ijisho irindi bituma abantu bose bahuma.” Niyo mpamvu habayeho gushaka uburyo bwuje ubumuntu, nti bwari muhagije ku ruhande rumwe ariko yariyo nzira nziza.

Hari imvururu n’imvugo z’urwango zimaze iminsi mu Burasirazuba bwa Congo, ibihuza ute n’ibyabeye mu Rwanda?

Simfite ububasha bwo kuvuga ko hazabaho Jenoside muri RDC, ariko nanone ushingiye ku mateka ya muntu ntiwashidikanya kuvuga ko hari ahandi izaba ku Isi.

Hashobora kuba atari hano kandi niko mbyifuza, ariko ushingiye ku cyo ikiremwamuntu ari cyo hari ibintu bigenda byisubiramo. Nk’ubu urebye nko mu myaka ya 1990 Fukuyama [Francis Fukuyama] yari ari kwandika iby’iherezo ry’ubugizi bwa nabi ubwo urukuta rw’i Berlin rwagwaga , Apartheid iri kurangira, Mandela afungurwa: Byari ibihe bidasanzwe, ubwigenge bwasaga nk’aho buje ariko mu by’ukuri ayo mateka mabi ntiyari yakarangiye.

Nk’ubu nyuma ya Jenoside yakorewe Abayahudi abantu baravuze ngo ntibizasubira ukundi ariko yakurikiwe n’iyakorewe Abanya-Armenia, kugeza n’ubu ikaba itaranemezwa.

Sinumva ko tutazigera tubona indi jenoside, kandi nanone sinavuga ko izaba muri RDC kuko sinanabyifuza, sinifuza ko yaba n’ahandi aho ari ho hose kuko ni amahano akomeye utakwifuriza umuntu, ariko sinatungurwa cyane mbonye habayeho indi jenoside.

Utangazwa n’iki mubyo u Rwanda rwagezeho mu myaka 30 ishize?

Icyo u Rwanda rwakoze ni uko rwihuse cyane kuva mu bihe by’icuraburindi byasenye igihugu rukagerageza kubaka igihugu gishya ku muvuduko uhambaye.

Si ukuvuga ko hubatswe inyubako zirenze nka za Convention Centre cyangwa imihanda yanyu isukuye, ahubwo ni abaturage baho, abaturage b’u Rwanda.

Ni umuturage w’u Rwanda wubatswe mu myaka 30 ishize, kandi bumwe mu buryo bugaragara biri gukorwamo, bushobora gutanga umusaruro kurusha henshi, ni ibyiringiro biri mu bakiri bato no gufata inshingano zikomeye muri uru Rwanda rushya.

Urubyiruko hano ruri gukora ibintu bitangaje, rwiha inshingano kandi babigaragazamo ubwenge n’ubushake. Aho njya hose muri iki gihugu, benshi mbonamo ukwiyemeza. Uhura n’umupolisi w’imyaka 19 cyangwa 20 acunze umutekano ku muhanda, noneho wareba uburyo ari kwifata n’uko na we agufata, aba ameze nk’uri kuzuza neza inshingano, mu kinyabupfura cyinshi kandi yitonze akabikora kinyamwuga.

Niba ari umuntu ukora mu biro, nko ku kibuga cy’indege, muri restaurant, biba bitangaje uko ubuzima bw’abato buri guhinduka hano mu Rwanda. Kuri njye ni intambwe ikomeye cyane y’ubuyobozi bwanyu.

Ikindi mbona nk’intambwe yo kubaka umuturage mushya n’uko mu Rwanda nta myumvire igihari yo kumva ko hari imirimo yagenewe abagabo n’indi ikaba iy’abagore, ubu igihugu cyane ni icya mbere ku Isi mu kugira abagore mu nzego zose z’ubuzima kuva mu miyoborere n’ahandi. Nta handi barashobora gukora ibi bintu.

Ibi bizatuma habaho impinduka zizamara igihe kirekire muri iki gihugu, ku bijyanye n’imiyoborere yacyo, n’ubushobozi bw’abaturage bacyo.

Ubu Kigali ni umujyi utekanye muri Afurika kandi unakeye ntagushidikanya. Ibyo byose ni umusaruro wo guhindura uko umuturage agomba kwibona kandi ndatekereza ko ibyo ari ibintu byiza byagezweho.

Muri izi mpinduka zose ni uwuhe mwenda igihugu gifitiye ubuyobozi bwacyo?

Aho ari ho hose, ubuyobozi bwiza bufite icyerekezo bugira uruhare mu iterambere. Rimwe njya mbona ko ari amahirwe mugira yo kubona abayobozi beza. Bitandukanye n’uko tubizi ahandi, tuba twizeye amatora ariko akaduha ibitandukanye n’ibyo dushaka. Turabizi ko kwikubira ubutegetsi ari bibi kandi dufite ingero […] ni bibi cyane kuruta amatora yatanze ubuyobozi bubi kuko ho wenda uba ushobora kuvuga ko hazabaho andi mahirwe yo kugerageza.

Ariko ku Rwanda biratandukanye, kuko muri abanyamahirwe n’ubuyobozi bwanyu, ahubwo ikibazo ni ni gute mwakomeza kugira ayo mahirwe? Kuko iyo ataza kuba k’ubw’ubuyobozi mufite, ntekereza ko muba mutanafiite igihugu.

Iki gihugu cyaratereranywe ngo gipfe, kuzuka nka Lazaro mu myaka 30 ni ibintu bidasanzwe. Mwagize amahirwe kandi koko murayakwiye.

Uwari uyoboye urugamba rwa RPA, yarashwe nyuma y’igihe gito binjiye ku mupaka, na Perezida mufite ubu ntiyari ahari kuko yari ari muri Amerika mu ishuri rya gisirikare.

Ubwo niba Fred Rwigema yararashwe bakimara kwambuka umupaka, na Paul Kagame adahari, ni inde wari uzi ibigiye gukurikira?

Hari indi nkuru wanditse uyita ‘A deadly divide’ isa nkaho ifitanye isano n’iyi mipaka yashyizweho muri Afurika, iyo mipaka niyo ikomeje guteza ibibazo muri RDC, kubera iki?

Nkubwije ukuri nta gisubizo mfite. Ntekereza ko izindi mpamvu zatumye ubona bimeze uko bimeze. Ni amateka, atari uko abantu baremewe kwitwara uko. Iyo Ababiligi batazana ziriya ndangamuntu z’amoko mu 1925, wenda ntabwo ibi byari kubaho. Urumva rero ibintu bigenda biba mu mateka nibyo akenshi bituma habaho ibindi.

Si ukuvuga ko nshima Ababiligi, kuko ugereranyije n’abandi bakoloni ntibari beza, ariko sintekereza ko baje bakavuga bati “Mureke dukore ya marangamuntu y’Abahutu n’Abatutsi kugira ngo hazabeho Jenoside mu bihe bizaza.”

Izi nizo ngaruka z’ibikorwa bitari byiza by’abanyamahanga batumvaga umuco n’ubushobozi bwawo bwo guhuza abantu n’ubushobozi bwo kugenderanira kw’abantu.

Ntibabyumvaga, bakoze ibyo bakora mu bujiji, noneho bahamya neza neza icyo bitaga amoko, wareba ugasanga bitari n’amoko kuko byari nk’ibyiciro byashyirwagamo abantu bitewe n’ubushobozi bwabo kuko hari igihe wavaga muri kimwe ukajya mu kindi gutyo gutyo.

Urumva ururimi rumwe, imigenzo imwe, amazina amwe, byose ari kimwe- ariko nyine bibaho hari ubwo abantu batumva ko byinshi mu bitubaho mu buzima bwacu hari ubwo tuba ntacyo twabikoraho.

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