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Ibaruwa iburira Habyarimana, Twagiramungu wahindutse nk’igicu, umubano w’u Rwanda n’u Bubiligi: Musare yabisobanuye

Yanditswe na J. Claude Mugenzi
Kuya 20 May 2024 saa 08:00
Yasuwe :

Musare Faustin, ni umwe mu nararibonye muri Politiki u Rwanda rufite, akaba yaragize uruhare rukomeye mu rugamba rwo kubohora igihugu by’umwihariko mu gice cy’abari abanyapolitiki, ndetse akomeza gukorera igihugu na nyuma yaho.

Ni umwe mu batinyutse kwandikira ubutegetsi bwa Habyarimana afatanyije na bagenzi be, aho bamumenyeshaga ko atagize icyo akora ngo ibintu bihinduke, ashobora kuzasiga u Rwanda mu manga.

IGIHE yaganiriye na Musare Faustin, agaruka kuri urwo rugendo rwo kubohora u Rwanda, ingorane igihugu cyahuye nazo nyuma ya Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi zirimo n’abashakaga kugisandaza bahereye imbere n’inyuma n’aho rugeze nyuma y’imyaka 30.

Wisanze mute muri FPR Inkotanyi?

Icyo naheraho ni ukuvuga ko mu Nkotanyi hatabamo amakarita y’ishyaka, binavuze ko mbere ya 1990 ntari mfite ikarita y’Inkotanyi, sinari mfite aho nanditse kuko FPR Inkotanyi igitangira yakoreye mu ibanga rikomeye ariko yari ifite ibitekerezo byiza bigororotse; twari twaragize amahirwe yo kubimenya mbere.

Mu by’ukuri nkanjye nanabimenye zitaranatangira kuko nabanje kumenya iby’umuryango witwa RANU, nzi ko hari Abanyarwanda bari hirya no hino bagiye batekereza uko bazagaruka mu Rwanda, uko bazarwanira uburenganzira bwabo.

Ibyo nabimenye mu 1982 ubwo nari i Burundi aho nahuriye n’abantu ba mbere mu Nkotanyi bakatubwira RANU, bakatubwira akababaro k’Abanyarwanda natwe twari tuzi nubwo twari tukiri bato. Icyo gihe nibwo natangiye kuyimenya.

Mu 1990 urugamba rutangira, nari naragiye muri Togo mvuye i Kigali, aho nari nitabiriye inama y’iminsi 15 kuko nakoreraga umuryango witwa ARDI n’ubu uracyariho. Noneho ngeze muri Togo n’abandi twari twajyanye, nibwo twumvise ko Inkotanyi zatangije urugamba.

Ubwo nibwo hatangiye gufatwa ibyitso ku itariki ya 04 Ukwakira amasasu ari menshi. Nahavuye rero urugamba rwaratangiye kandi sinashobora kuza ino, nahise njya i Nairobi muri Kenya mpamara igihe ari naho navuye nza ku rugamba aho nabarizwaga mu gice cy’abanyepolitike dukorana n’abasirikare.

Uri umwe mu batinyutse kwandikira ibaruwa Habyarimana umunenga, byaje bite?

Icyo gihe nakoreraga uwo muryango witwa ARDI, nagiye njya mu nama i Nairobi na hano mu gihugu. Ndibuka muri Gashyantare, 1990; hari inama bateguye Arusha itegurwa n’Ishami ry’Umuryango w’Abibumbye ryitwa UNECA.

Ubwo rero bateguye inama nini yiga ku ruhare rw’abaturage mu bintu byatuma batera imbere. Ubwo baje gushaka hano mu Rwanda ku muntu wabandikira ku ruhare rw’abaturage, Ese ibyo bakorerwa babigiramo uruhe ruhare? Ubwo naje gutanga igitekerezo cyo kuba nakwandika ku Umuganda.

Nandika inyandiko nerekana ko umuganda ari igitekerezo cyiza, ko ari ikintu cyagira akamaro, ariko nerekana ukuntu mu mikorere y’icyo gihe ukuntu umuganda wakorwaga, hari ibikorwa byinshi byagiye bikorwa nk’umuhanda no gutera amashyamba, ariko wareba uburyo bikorwa ukabona hari ikibura.

Icyo gihe rero umuganda wakorwaga ku wa Gatandatu kandi ku wa Gatandatu wari umunsi w’akazi. Ubwo abakozi bajyaga mu muganda, bakabaha za bisi n’ibikoresho binyuranye byifashishwa mu mirimo y’amaboko nk’amapiki, ibitiyo n’ibindi ku buryo wabonaga iyo wateranyaga ayo mafaranga, wasangaga ari menshi cyane ariko wareba icyo yakoze ugasanga ntikigaragara neza.

Nanditse mbinenga rero nerekana ko umuganda nubwo bawogeza, udafite akamaro nk’ako bavuga ufite. Hano ntabwo nari nzwi muri politiki, sinari nzwi mu bakorera leta kuko sinayikoreraga, ahantu nagiye gutanga icyo kiganiro rero mu nyubako ya Arusha, hari haje Abanyarwanda benshi baturutse i Kigali baravuga bati “ariko Umunyarwanda utanga ikiganiro ku muganda, akaba atakivuga mu murongo wa leta, ni nde?”

Muri iyo nama yabereye Arusha hari abantu bo muri Canada bari baturutse cyatangaga amafaranga mu mishinga ya hano mu Rwanda, bakaba baramenye ko nkorana na ARDI kandi nabo bakorana na ARDI; ubwo ibyo nanditse barabishima bati nta muntu wari warigeze atubwira ko Umuganda ufite inenge.

Ni aho bahereye bashaka ko dukorana ikiganiro ku buryo twavuga no ku muganda maze Musare akatubwira uko awubona, icyo gihe bituma rero abategetsi ba Habyarimana bibwira bati uyu mugabo nitumukurikirana biraduteranya n’abanya-Canada na za nshuti zacu. Ni iyo mpamvu batiriwe bankurikirana.

Icyo gihe rero nabaye mu bantu batinyutse dutangira gutekereza icyo abantu bakwandika ku bijyanye n’ishyaka rimwe rukumbi mu gihugu. Aho niho havuyemo abantu 33 ariko batabanje kubijyaho inama, ariko hari bake bagendaga bahura nka Antoine Mugesera ni we nibuka cyane cyane, Rugenera wabaye Minisitiri w’Imari.

Ubwo abo nibo baje gutegura inyandiko y’imbanzirizamushinga baraza barambwira bati “Ese iyi nyandiko wayisinya ?” Mbabaza icyo ivuga, nsanga iravuga ko dukwiye gukangurira leta kuba yareka abantu bakagira amashyaka menshi, MRND ntikomeze kwigira ishyaka rimwe rukumbi.

Nta bwoba wumvaga ufite ?

Oya kuko naravugaga nti n’ubundi bashatse kugira icyo bakora bagikora kuko no mu 1973 baratwirukanye. Naravugaga nti ‘ikizashaka kizabe’ ariko nta cyatubuza kubivuga […] Ni abantu 33 babikoze kandi baturutse mu byiciro bitandukanye by’Abanyarwanda ndetse no mu moko yose mu duce twose tw’igihugu. Twabikoze ari ikintu gihagurukiwe n’abantu babitekereza.

Ko uvuga ko harimo abo mu moko yose kandi icyo gihe hari hariho ivanguramoko ryo kwibasira abatutsi. Muri iryo tsinda mwarimo, mwabonaga iyo mibanire yanyu ntaho ivangirwa no kuvangura amoko ?

Kubisobanura biraruhije […] reba Jean Kambanda wabaye Minisitiri w’Intebe kuri Leta y’Abatabazi yari arimo, Twagiramungu Faustin yari arimo […] mbega icyahuje abantu ni uko ibintu by’ishyaka rimwe rukumbi abantu babonaga kobitazakomeza kuko bidafite akamaro cyane nubwo MRND yo yavugaga ko ishyaka rimwe rituma habaho ubwumvikane kandi atari byo.

Itsinda ryacu rero icyo ryari rihuriyeho ni ukudashyigikira ibyo MRND yavugaga. Kubera ko hari abari baririmo nyuma y’igihe gito baba baratirimutse bahinduka abicanyi, baba abantu bashyigikiye ivangura ryagejeje kuri jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi, ni ibintu bitangaje. Icyo twari duhuriyeho ni ukuvuguruza ubutegetsi bwa Habyarimana kugira ngo bugire icyo buhindura.

Ko wari ujijutse uri no muri politike ushaka ko ibintu bihinduka, ni ryari wabonye ko leta igiye kugera mu mugambi byeruye wo kurimbura abatutsi?

Biragoye kuvuga igihe yabiboneye neza, kuko urumva igihe Inkotanyi zateraga nubwo ibintu byari bimeze nabi, nubwo politiki ya MRND na Habyarimana itari imeze neza kubera ivangura n’akarengane, njye ku giti cyanjye ntabwo nigeze ntekereza ko bakwica abantu kuri bene buriya buryo bakibasirwa mu gihugu cyose.

Nk’ibya jenoside rwose nabibonye ari uko tugiye muri ririya tsinda rya FPR ryari mu mishyikirano ya Arusha tugahura na ba Bagosora, ba Mudacumura n’abandi nk’abo ni bwo wabonaga koko ko nubwo bageragezaga kubeshyabeshya mu mishyikirano, abantu bavuga ibintu byubaka ariko nyuma y’imishyikirano ukabona ko ari abantu bateye ukundi.

Mumaze kubona ko bari mu biganiro batabishaka, mwavanaga he imbaraga zo gukomeza?

Byasabaga imbaraga kandi izo mbaraga ubona ari ikintu karemano cya FPR-Inkotanyi. Hari ibintu buriya FPR-Inkotanyi yatubibyemo uhereye kuri Nyakubahwa Perezida wa Repubulika Paul Kagame ; ikintu cyo kwihangana no kureba kure, ukarenza amaso ibyo uri kubona ako kanya.

Nk’abantu twari kumwe muri Arusha, mu by’ukuri wabonaga ibyo turimo batabyemera ariko wenda tukavuga tuti baratinya ko bazasubira i Kigali bakabamerera nabi, bakabakura mu ikipe iri mu mishyikirano kuko bazaga bari muri misiyo babihemberwa. Twe twatekerezaga ibintu byinshi. Ikindi hazagamo no kuba hari ibihugu by’u Burayi nk’u Bufaransa n’u Bubiligi byabashyigikiraga, ukibwira rero ko atari ibintu biri mu mitima yabo bavukanye kuko n’ubundi si ibintu umuntu aba yaravukanye, ariko bikagutangaza kubona ukuntu abantu babyemera.

Urwo rwango rw’abatutsi rero ; hari igihe bazanaga n’abatutsi bake ku ruhande rwa leta y’u Rwanda, ariko ukabona batabikoza. Bakaganira bya nyirarureshwa ariko mwajya ku ruhande bakakubwira ngo bariya bantu buriya ibyo turimo ntabwo babyemera.

Jenoside imaze gutangira muri FPR Inkotanyi umwuka wari umeze ute?

[…] Muri Kanama 1993 twe twaravugaga tuti ubwo imishyikirano irangiye, tukaba twumvikanye uko hazajyaho guverinoma uko hazajyaho inteko, hakajyaho imiyoborere mishya y’igihugu twe muri FPR twarabyemeraga, tukumva ko ari ibintu bizaba, ibintu byaganiriweho igihe kirekire, ibintu byitabiriwe n’indorerezi n’umuryango w’abibumbye, ubumwe bwa Afurika, mbega twabonaga ko ari ibintu bizashoboka, ariko aho tugereye ku Murindi dusubiye muri kariya gace twari turimo, ibintu byatangiye guhinduka.

Musare Faustin agaragaza ko kongera kubaka u Rwanda nyuma ya Jenoside byari ihurizo rikomeye

Ubwo twazaga i Kigali rero mu mpera z’ukwezi kwa Ukuboza mu 1993, abanyepolitiki na ba basirikare barindaga abanyepolitiki bageze kuri 600, twaje rwose dutekereza ko bizashoboka ariko tugeze hano mu Nteko Ishinga Amategeko yacu, yitwaga CND icyo gihe ; nibwo amananiza yatangiye neza noneho, batangira kwibasira abantu hirya no hino.

Kugera muri Mata rero bamwe bari baratangiye kuva muri CND baragiye ku Mulindi kuko twabonaga ko biriya bintu birimo amananiza akomeye n’umwuka watangiye kuba mubi. Ni ho rero indege ya Habyarimana bayihanuriye ku itariki 06 Mata, aho tumenya ko koko ibintu bihindutse.

Icyo umbaza ngo umwuka wari umeze ute rero, ntekereza ko abo mu rwego rw’ingabo by’umwihariko umugaba w’ikirenga hari amakuru babonaga nubwo twe twabonaga ari ibisanzwe, gusa aho indege ihanukiye, byahise bigaragara ko batangiye kwica abantu kuri iyo tariki ku wa 06-07 ari nabwo Umugaba Mukuru w’Ingabo yafataga icyemezo ko ingabo za FPR-Inkotanyi zikwiye guhaguruka bakarwanira abicwa, bakarwanya abicanyi, bakarwanya abakora jenoside.

Abicanyi bari bahize ko nta Mututsi n’umwe uzarokoka, ntabwo izo mvuga zigeze zibaca intege?

Inkotanyi ntabwo zigeze zicika intege rwose kandi biragaragara. Kudacika intege, kugira umugaba w’ikirenga w’ingabo wumva, ufite umurongo kandi abifashijwemo n’Inkotanyi zindi mu nzego zinyuranye, ni ukugira umutima wo kuvuga ngo igihugu ntigishobora gusenyuka duhari ntihakwiye kuba buriya bwicanyi ku mugaragaro twicaye aha ku Mulindi turebera.

Ubona ute umubano w’u Rwanda n’u Bufaransa kuri ubu nka kimwe mu byashyigikiye Leta yakoze Jenoside?

Buriya jenoside igihagarikwa, hari ibihugu by’u Burayi muri rusange bari bazi ko ntacyo tuzashobora, bari bazi ko guverinoma iyobowe na FPR itazafata. bari bazi ko bariya bantu bahungiye muri Zaire bazagaruka umunsi umwe bakatunyura hejuru, bakaturangiza.

Abayobozi baje kumva bitinze. Nk’u Bufaransa murabizi abaperezida babwo, uko guverinoma zabo zagiye zisimburana, guhera kuri Sarkozy nibwo byatangiye guhinduka. Yaje hano akiri Perezida, ukabona ko atangiye gushakisha uburyo leta y’u Rwanda na leta y’u Bufaransa zatangira gukorana no kumvikana, haza gucamo Hollande utaragize icyo akora, ubu hariho Macron rero, kubera ko ari muto afite imyumvire, ibintu byarahindutse, ku buryo mbona ko u Bufaransa n’u Rwanda ubu tubanye neza.

Ikigaragara rwose ni uko tubanye neza nubwo twifuza ko basaba imbabazi bakaba batarazisabye ku mugaragaro, ariko nibura iriya mbwirwaruhame Macron yatanze yaje ino, wumvaga ko ifite ireme. Kwemera uruhare bagize nubwo babivuga mu mvugo za diplomasi, ntacyo bitwaye njye ku bwanjye narabishimye.

Ubwo wageraga iwanyu mu gihe cya Jenoside wasanze byifashe gute?

Buriya agasozi mvukaho kitwa Murambi w’Inyambo. Uturutse i Rwamagana ujya i Kayonza ni rwagati. Umusozi ukora kuri Muhazi, no kuri Kaburimbo. Hariya iwacu rero abantu barapfuye ariko nta bapfira gushira, nasanze data umbyara akiriho kandi yari umusaza ukuze cyane, nsanga hari abapfakazi ba bakuru banjye, nsanga hari abandi baturanyi barokotse.

Kubera ko uko Inkotanyi zazaga zegera imbere zigana i Kayonza, abicanyi cyane cyane abo kwa Gatete bagendaga bamara abantu, ntibashoboye kwambuka ngo bagere kuri turiya dusozi tw’iwacu.

Wakoze imirimo itandukanye nyuma ya Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi ndetse wanabaye umujyanama wa Perezida wa Repubulika, kubaka igihugu muhereye ku busa rwari urugamba rumeze rute?

Byasabye ko inzego zose zifatanya. Inzego z’umutekano, abo muri za minisiteri; muzi ko icyo gihe hari haradutse ibintu by’Imiryango itegamiye kuri Leta myinshi, yari uruhuri bazaga ari n’abahashyi. Njye nari muri Minisiteri y’Ubutegetsi bw’Igihugu.

Kubaka uhereye ku busa rero kubisobanura biragoye, ariko kandi biragoye no kubyumva cyane cyane nk’abana bacu bakiri bato, bumva ari nka bya bindi bita ‘magic’.

Icyo gihe twahembwaga ifu y’ibigori, ikindi kintu kibonetse nk’amata, ubwo tukabifatanya. Igitangaje rero ni uko muri iyo mikorere nta muntu winubaga. Kutagira imodoka, kutagira uburyo bwo kugenda, umuntu niba acumbitse ku Kimihurura, undi acumbitse mu Gatsata, ntabwo byabaga byoroshye.

Ndibuka ko twigeze gufata icyemezo cyo kujya dutangira akazi saa tatu tukagasoza saa cyenda kugira ngo abantu baze gushobora gutaha. Nta mazi yari ahari, nta mashanyarazi nibura ngo abantu babashe gutaha habona. Ibyo byose rero kubikoreramo ukitwa minisitiri, ukitwa irindi zina rihambaye, icyo gihe rwose twe nta buremere twabihaga. Uburemere kwari ukugira icyo dukora kugira ngo igihugu cyongere gihaguruke.

Mwabikoranaga na FPR nka moteri y’igihugu, ariko se andi mashyaka mwakoranaga yari atangiye kugarura agatege, yabyakiraga neza?

Kumwe twavugaga ko byari uguhera ku busa, no mu mikoranire y’amashyaka mu bya politiki nabyo ni uko byari bimeze! Mu by’ukuri, abakada ba FPR nibo bari bafite uwo mugogoro wo kugerageza guha abandi morale n’akabaraga, ndetse n’abo twakoranaga bo mu yandi mashyaka hari aho byageraga ukabona rwose baragenda badohoka, ukabona barashaka kwitwa abategetsi nk’uko byari bisanzwe bakongera kuba ba burugumesitiri, ba perefe ba Minisitiri, bakumva bashaka kuba abantu badasanzwe batameze nk’abandi.

Si muri bo gusa kuko no mu bacu muri FPR hari abatangiye kugira iyo myitwarire buhoro buhoro. Ibyo biraza kutuganisha kuri bya biganiro byo mu Urugwiro n’ukuntu byavutse. Tugeze mu 1997-98, urumva twari tumaze imyaka itatu, ine ubona ko hari intambwe igenda iterwa, ariko kandi za ONG navugaga zakabaye zari imiryango ije gutanga ubufasha, si ko byari bimeze ahubwo abenshi bari abantu b’abanyepolitiki batumwe, ariko bakaza bihishe muri iy miryango itegamiye kuri leta n’imikorere yayo.

Abo bantu rero baratubangamiye ku buryo mwajyaga nk’inama mukavuga muti tugiye gutanga amazi ahantu, tugiye gufasha abantu guhinga no korora, bakaza babyuririyeho ariko ugahita usanga bigiriye mu bindi.

Byageze aho leta ifata icyemezo cyo kubagabanya mu buryo bugaragara. Byarabahungabanyije ariko byatumye abakada bacu bumva ko ari bo bakwiye gufata iya mbere, bakamenya gufata ibyemezo, bakamenya ibyo bakwiye gukora n’ibyo bakwiye kwirinda.

Icyo kuba abo mu yandi mashyaka bari batangiye kumva ari abantu bakomeye kurusha abandi rero, byatumye hari na bamwe mu bakada ba FPR bumva ko umuntu akwiye kuba ari umutegetsi, ariko hazamo n’ikintu cy’uko igihugu cyabaye kinini kuko mbere twabaga dukorera ahantu hamwe ariko umuntu noneho yaba agiye gukorera kure agasa n’aho atakaye.

Ubwo abakada bamwe batangira kujya biyumvamo ko ab’i Kigali babataye bituma habaho akantu k’ihungabana, bakumva bo baratakaye, bakumva baragwingiye.

Hari inama za FPR Inkotanyi zabereye Kicukiro ngira ngo hari mu 1998, muri Gashyantare tariki ya 15. Iyo nama ngira ngo mu by’ukuri abari bafite imirimo bose muri FPR bareguye icyarimwe, maze hashyirwaho izindi nzego. Icyo gihe nibwo twatoye Chairman mushya wa RPF. Ni bwo twatoye Kagame, icyo gihe yari akiri Visi Perezida. Hagiye ba komiseri, hajyaho abo ku nzego z’urubyiruko.

Iyo nama yarabaye abakada bose bateranye baturutse hirya no hino, inama imara iminsi ibiri kandi iba inama nziza kuko yavuyemo ubuyobozi bushya bw’Umuryango ariko inavamo inshingano zisobanutse baravuga bati “mwa bagabo mwe n’abagore mumaze gutorwa, muyobowe na Chairman Kagame Paul, inshingano ya mbere mugiye kuba moteri ya guverinoma.”

Iryo jambo niho ryavuye. Mube moteri mutume ibintu bikora. Ubwo bihaye umwaka wo kubazwa inshingano y’ikintu cyose kuburyo icyangiritse bagomba kukibazwa nk’inshingano nta kujenjeka kugira ngo FPR ibashe kuba umusingi w’ibyubakwa byose.

Icya kabiri kwari ugukora ubukangurambaga, abantu bakigishwa, hanyuma nyuma y’umwaka hagombaga gutangwa raporo. Icyo gihe abayobozi bashya barahuye nabo bajya inama bibaza icyo gukora.

Icya mbere cyatekerejwe, ni ugukora inama hatitawe ku gihe yamara cyose ariko hakagerwa ku kintu gikwiye gukorwa mu gihugu. Ubwo twaravuze tuti ‘si twe tuzahamagara ariya mashyaka yandi yose kugira ngo tuyakoreshe inama kuko natwe turi ishyaka, turareshya.’

Twasabye Perezida wa Repubulika kuko we afite ubwo burenganzira, atumiza iyo nama. atumira amashyaka yose, abagize guverinoma yose batumirwa muri iyo nama, inteko yo ntabwo yari kuza yose ariko hahamagajwe biro yayo n’abahagarariye za Komisiyo, ubwo batumira n’abanyepolitiki babayeho ku zindi ngoma.

Ibyo biganiro rero byarabaye biva mu 1998 bisozwa muri Werurwe, 1999. Byavuyemo imyanzuro y’ibyagiye bikorwa kuva ku Itegeko Nshinga, Amatora, imiyoborere, kwegereza ubuyobozi abaturage, za komisiyo zinyuranye, byose ni aho byaherewe umurongo abantu bamenya aho igihugu kigana kuko ni naho havukiye Icyerekezo 2020.

Aho havuyemo komisiyo igomba kunonosora ibyerekeye Ubumwe bw’Abanyarwanda, ibyerekeye Gacaca n’ibindi.

Twavuga ko ibiganiro byo mu Urugwiro ari umusingi iki gihugu kigenderaho rero ?

Ushatse wabyitwa utyo rwose. Hari hakubiyemo ibintu byose kandi mu nzego zose.

Ikindi cyabaye icyo gihe, kwari ukumara abantu impungenge ko nta muntu uzazizwa ikintu yavugiye mu Urugwiro muri ibyo biganiro. Urumva kubamara izo mpungenge ni ukubibabwira Perezida ahari, hari abaminisitiri, abacamanza, abo muri parike, bakavuga bati ibivugirwa aha byose ni ibigamije kubaka, uzakubwirira nabi aha azikosore, uzavuga ibitari byo muzamuvuguruze, mbese baravuga bati, ntihazagire umuntu uzira icyo yavugiye aha.

Abantu bahageraga saa tatu, saa sita tugasangira, nyuma ukaba waganira na bamwe mukamenyana, mukavuga muti kanaka sinemeranya n’ibyo avuga, abantu bakabijyaho impaka mbega ku buryo nta kibazo abantu bavugagaho ngo bakiveho kitarangiye.

Byaje kugenda bite ngo bamwe mu bitabiriye izo nama zo mu Rugwiro bavemo abarwanya Leta?

Buriya rero nubwo nabonye kubisobanura bitoroshye hari abantu nubwo twabanye muri ibyo byose nk’urugero urabona nyakwigendera Twagiramungu Faustin, muri ba bantu 33 basinye ya nyandiko ibwira leta ya Habyarimana ko bagomba kudohora bagafungura hakaba amashyaka menshi yari arimo. Nyuma aza kuba Minisitiri w’intebe kuko MDR ni we yatanze yananditswe no mu masezerano ya Arusha.

Urumva yari umuntu ukomeye muri urwo rugendo agomba kuzayobora Guverinoma ya mbere nyuma y’imishyikirano. Yari umuntu rwose utaripfana kumwe biyita, ariko nubwo yabaye Minisitire w’Intebe mu buryo habaye Genoside tutarabikereza, yabaye Minisitire w’Intebe umwaka, atangira gutana, uretse ko no mu miterere ye uko namubonye, Twagiramungu nta kintu yashoboraga kubamo atakiyobora ngo gishoboke. N’abantu bari bamuzi ni ko batubwiraga; ikintu cyose yabaga arimo yabaga ashaka ko akiyobora.

Uko ntekereza rero ashobora kuba yaraje azi ko ariwe uzayobora ibyo bintu byose, ari we kamara, ari umutegetsi.

Aje rero muri FPR ni byo twari tuvuyemo ntabwo byamushobokeye kuko twari dushyize imbere guhuza Ubumwe bw’Abanyarwanda no kumvikana, ariko twari dufite umurongo ngenderwaho. Uwo mwaka rero waramunaniye.

Nk’urugero abantu benshi batazi guverinoma imaze kujyaho abaye Minisitire w’Intebe, uzi ko abantu bajya muri misiyo habaye inama iyo ibunaka, abakozi ba leta bagiye muri misiyo, urabizi ko bagenerwa amafaranga bita aya misiyo, byagiraga Ingengo y’umwaka ari amezi 12 ariko byageraga mu kwa Gatatu kw’iyo ngengo y’imari ya mafaranga yose yarashize.

Noneho tuza kureba tuti ‘ese ibya misiyo ari ibintu bisanzwe byateganyijwe, ashize ate?’ Icyo rero umugabo yakoraga, yashyiraga imbere abantu ba MDR, abantu ba FPR ntibajye muri misiyo. Ni uko igihe kigeze basuzuma buhoro buhoro tuza kubona uko bimeze.

Tukabaza tuti none se umuntu wanditse ko agiye muri misiyo azamara iminsi ingahe? Ese azagaruka ryari ? Ese inama agiyemo izamarira iki igihugu? Ibyo tukabisuzuma. Rero hari ibyo twasuzumaga tugasanga abantu basa n’aho bagiye kwitemberera cyangwa bagiye kubonana n’abandi bantu mu Bufaransa n’ibindi.

Hari n’ibindi byagiye bizamo hari ibyo nzi n’ibyo ntazi kuko byageze igihe inteko imukuraho kubera imiterere ye yo kwifuza kuyobora mu bintu byose no guhindura intego twatangiranye.

Rero Twagiramungu kubera twari tuziranye yazaga no kunsura mu Bubiligi twaraganiraga njye namwitaga bazina nkamubaza nti “ese Faustin, byagenze gute ko bambwiye ko usigaye uba muri FDLR, uba wagiye he na he? Hari ijambo yakundaga kuvuga ngo “Franchement, Faustin barambeshyera.”

Agakomeza ati “Ariko icyo nakubwira cyo ni uko bariya bana bo muri FDLR bariya bavukiye mu mahanga ntabwo ari abicanyi franchement.”

Nkamubwira ko ikibazo atari icyo ahubwo ari ingengabitekerezo ya Jenoside no kwicana, wowe se wayishyigikira ute se kandi nkuzi? Ati “kuri bariya bana njye simbyemera ni abaziranenge.”

Muri bariya rero bagiye hanze icyo navuga ni uko bagiye babona ababashyigikira, nk’Abafaransa cyangwa abandi bantu mu Bubiligi bari muri uwo murongo w’ingengabitekerezo ya Jenoside yo gucamo abantu ibice, ariko nubwo tuvuga ngo ni benshi burya ntabwo ari benshi, ahubwo ikibazo ni uko umuntu usakuza, utukana, umuntu uvuga ibintu bidasanzwe nk’ibyo aba avuga ukavuga uti ibintu byacitse.

Urabona nk’abana ba bariya bantu tuvuga ba ruharwa, hari abana babo benshi banatashye bari hano. Rwose buriya bariya basakuza ni bake gusa ni babi, uwo mutima banze kuwureka kubera uruhare babigizemo ariko nyine tugize Imana Umunyarwanda wese wigeze kuba mubi agahinduka agataha n’uwahanwa yahanwa.

Niba binagabanuka se aho ubuyobozi bw’u Bubiligi buhagaze byaba biterwa n’iki kuba bamaze igihe banga ambasaderi u Rwanda rwoherejeyo?

Njyewe nkurikije uko mbibona, nkurikije n’ubunararibonye bw’uko twabanye n’uko twakoranye; ikintu kimwe nkeka kimwe ni uko buriya u Bubiligi ari igihugu kigoye. Buriya u Bubiligi ni igihugu gito mu Burayi gisa n’aho kingana n’u Rwanda, kikagira ibibazo niba nabyita amacakubiri n’ivangura. Buriya bagira amashyaka menshi cyane, amashyaka yabo ahora mu ntambara ntajya yoroherana.

Rero bakaganira igihe batoye inteko y’u Bubiligi, bakaganira uko guverinoma izajyaho sinzi niba uzi ko mu myaka yo hambere bigeze kumara umwaka nta Guverinoma bagira. Ariko buriya baba badafite Guverinoma Ihuza u Bubiligi, ariko buriya baba bafite za guverinoma z’imbere mu gihugu zikora, Polisi ikora. Utabizi ntiwabimenya ariko iyo uhageze ugakurikira nk’uku twari abadipolomate dukorana nabo, urabireba ukabona ko hari ibyemezo badashobora gufata bitaboroheye, ukabona ko hari ikintu runaka badashobora gufataho icyemezo.

Burya rero n’ibi byo kwanga ambasaderi wacu nk’uku kwacu ntiwamenya n’icyabiteye ariko, icyo nkeka ko ari Congo kubera inyungu bafiteyo. Ibyo bashaka gukurayo, bikarangira bavuze bati “nimwemera uriya muntu, turagira dutya.” Bigomba kuba ari ibintu nk’ibyo ariko n’imikorere yabo isanzwe kugira ngo bazumvikane ku kintu nko mu bubanyi n’amahanga, ntabwo biborohera. Ni nko kugendera ku magi.

Burugumesitiri wa komine nk’uko hano dufite Meya hano, hariya aba ari umuntu ukomeye wica agakiza. Nibo usanga bamazeho imyaka nka 30 nk’uko byari hano mbere ya jenoside. Burugumesitiri ariko afite ububasha ahabwa n’itegeko ryabo. Uzi ko mu gace ayobora minisitiri ashobora kuhaza bagize nk’ibirori, ntamuhe ijambo. Bakamwangira wenda kubera ari mu ishyaka rishya.

Ese kuki batabirwaniramo ngo hagire ishyaka rivuga ngo iyi politike dufite ku Rwanda ntituyemera?

U Bubiligi mu mitegekere yabo, bagira abantu bateye mu rubyiruko b’aba “influenceurs” bo bagira abantu bateye batyo rero, nk’abantu bayoboye igihe kirekire nk’imyaka icumi ari abaminisitiri, iyo bavuye mu nshingano bababwa n’Umwami wabo inyito yitwa Minisitiri wa Leta bitandukanye no mu Bufaransa.

Ni abantu bigeze kuba abaministiri rero abo bantu babaye muri politike bagira igihe bakajya kubabaza bati nk’uyu turabizi ko yabaye mu Rwanda cyangwa Congo, rero abantu nk’abo baba bagifite ijambo mu byemezo bifatwa haba mu bubanyi n’amahanga cyangwa izindi nzego.

Gusa iby’ububanyi n’amahanga byo kubimenya biragoye keretse iyo ufite inshuti mukajya muganira ariko nabo ntibaba babizi kandi iyo bafashe imyanzuro kuzabivuguruza biratinda.

Ubona ute u Rwanda nyuma y’imyaka 30 rubohowe?

Icya mbere ni ukubona u Rwanda ruhagaze rutya. U Rwanda n’Abanyarwanda batekanye, batuje, bafite icyerekezo; mbese urumva turi mu gihugu cyiyubashye kandi cyubashywe. Ni cyo kintu cya mbere cyinshimisha, kandi noneho ntusanga ari bya bintu ngo abo mu gace aka n’aka ngo bamerewe neza kurusha aba, ngo abandi b’ahandi bameze neza, ngo abandi baradindiye, njye rwose nishimiye uko igihugu kimeze n’ubuyobozi bwabo.

Twagize amahirwe tugira Perezida Kagame, buriya ni umuntu udasanzwe. Nkatwe twagize amahirwe yo gukorana na we kumubona hafi ni amahirwe twagize nk’igihugu n’Abanyarwanda kuko ni umuntu wumva, ureba kure kandi umuntu wiyoroshya nubwo ari umusirikare ukomeye ariko ariyoroshya.

Hari byinshi bitangaje bigenda biza, uzi abantu bita abanyabuzima? Abajyanama b’ubuzima baba mu cyaro hariya iwacu […]

Icyo kintu cya Mituelli rero ni ikintu gitangaje, icyo kwita ku baturage, iby’amashuri y’abana ni ibintu bitagira uko bisa nubwo bitarafata cyane, ariko abaturage baravuga ibitagenda neza ku bayobozi babo.

Ikindi rero muri dipolomasi ari na cyo nasorejeho mu mirimo ya leta, u Rwanda rurubashywe, ahantu usanga bifuza ko Perezida wacu yazajyayo nabo bifuza ko bazaza mu Rwanda noneho n’ubu buryo bushya bwa Viza bw’abantu kuza mu Rwanda batiriwe bakora hirya no hino baka Viza, umuntu agafata indege akagera i Kanombe akinjira mu gihugu bakamuha iminsi 30 cyangwa 90 ibyo bintu byaduhesheje agaciro cyane byoroshya ibibazo.

Urebye n’Abanyarwanda bo hanze ukuntu bakurikira, ukuntu banezezwa n’uko igihugu cyabo gifite ishema bashobora kohereza amafaranga yabo akagira icyo amara, yatangira umushinga akaza akawukora. Yego ntihabura utubazo ariko ni ibisanzwe ntaho bitaba. Njye rwose numva binejeje ntiriwe njya mu bindi byinshi numva binshimishije kuba dufite iguhugu kimeze gutya uyu munsi.


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