Ubwo yagiranaga ikiganiro na kimwe mu binyamakuru bikomeye mu Mujyi wa New York kitwa “Metro”, Perezida Kagame yongeye guhakana ibivugwa na raporo y’impuguke za Loni, ishinja u Rwanda gufasha umutwe wa M23, avuga ko icyo u Rwanda rushyize imbere ubu ari iterambere, aho gushakira indamu mu bihugu by’amahanga, cyane cyane mu bikorwa bitemewe.

Dore ikiganiro kirambuye Perezida Kagame yagiranye na Metro

Metro: Ku bijyanye n’umutekano w’igihugu cyanyu, raporo yakozwe n’itsinda ry’impuguke za LONI yashinje u Rwanda kwivanga mu gace k’u Burasirazubwa bwa Repubulika Iharanira Demokarasi ya Congo gakize ku mabuye y’agaciro, kigajemo imitwe yitwara gisirikare n’ubucuruzi bw’amabuye bwa magendu, bitewe n’ubushobozi buke bwo kugenzura Guverunima ya Congo ifite. Ni iki muvuga kuri ibi birego?

Paul Kagame: Ibi birego ntabwo ari ukuri. Igihugu cyacu gishyira imbere gahunda zijyanye n’iterambere ry’igihugu, aho gushaka inyungu mu mahanga, by’umwihariko mu bikorwa bitemewe. Amateka n’inyungu z’igihugu cy’u Rwanda n’Abanyarwanda ni byo bigena umurongo ngenderwaho wacu. Igihugu cyacu cyanyuze mu bihe bibi bya Jenoside mu myaka 18 ishize. Kuva ubwo, hagendewe kuri politiki y’ubwiyunge, abaturage barenga miliyoni imwe bavuye mu bukene, abarenga 90% by’abaturage b’u Rwanda bafite ubwishingizi mu kwivuza ndetse twahawe umwanya wa gatatu na Banki y’Isi mu korohereza ishoramari muri Afurika, bitewe n’imikorere irangwamo ikigereranyo cya ruswa kiri hasi nk’uko Transparency International yabigaragaje.

Twashyizeho imikoranire myiza n’abafatanyabikorwa b’iterambere. Turashaka kubaka imiterere ya sosiyete yacu, aho umunyarwanda wese afite uruhare ku hazaza hacu.

Metro: Abasesenguzi benshi, barimo n’itsinda ry’impuguke za LONI, bisa nk’aho babona isano ryanyu rishingiye ku mateka n’umuco n’umutwe w’inyeshyamba(M23), ari ryo rituma u Rwanda rugira uruhare muri iki kibazo. Mwakoranye n’iyi mitwe mbere, kandi musangiye ubwoko n’ururimi. Ntubona ko ibi byatuma benshi babyibazaho?

Paul Kagame: Hari umuco w’uburyo ibihugu bikize bibona Afurika n’akarere kacu by’umwikariko, mu ndorerwamo y’amoko yataye igihe kandi ashingiye ku makosa. Kuko hari Abanyekongo bakomoka mu Rwanda, nk’uko wabivuze mu bibazo wabajije, barwanya Guverinoma ya Congo, abantu bahita bafata umwanzura w’uko u Rwanda rushobora kuba rubafasha. U Rwanda rushya ntirwemera iyi mitekerereze ishaje. Duharanira agaciro k’igihugu cyacu kandi tuzakomeza guharanira inyungu z’igihugu cyacu tutagendeye ku biri kubera mu bihugu by’ibituranyi, tutitaye ku byitwa amoko.

U Rwanda rushya rurubaka ubukungu butanga umusaruro n’amahirwe ku baturage bacu hashingiwe ku bikorera ku giti cyabo bafite ingufu. Kwivanga mu bibazo by’amahanga byaba bihenze kandi bikabangamira izi ntego zigoye twihaye.

Muri make ntabwo twafasha inyeshyamba hanze y’umupaka wacu.

Abanyarwanda bashyizwe mu bibazo mu gihe kingana n’imyaka nka 50 ishize, bazi agaciro k’amahoro. Nanjye ni uko.

Metro: U Rwanda rwashyizwe mu majwi cyane n’Imiryango y’uburenganzira bwa muntu, rushinjwa gufasha imitwe y’inyeshyamba nka M23 ndete hari abakunenga ku bijyanye n’ubwisanzure bw’itangazamakuru n’ubwa politiki. Ni iki uvuga kuri ibi bakunenga?

Paul Kagame: Ndabyumva ko imiryango iharanira uburenganzira bwa muntu izitiwe mu guhatanira kubona sheki nini zivuye mu baterankunga bafite amafaranga kandi bakeneye gushyiraho ibihuha bikomeye. Ntabwo dukunda kugenzurwa ku bijyanye n’uburenganzira bw’abaturage bacu n’imiryango ikora ubuvugizi idafitiwe icyizere, ikorera abayiha amafaranga. Uburenganzira bwa muntu ntabwo ari inkingi y’abakorerabushake bo mu bihugu byateye imbere: Ubusobanuro bwabyo bugomba kugera ku kugira uburenganzira ku buzima bufite ijabo; uburenganzira bwo kohereza abana ku ishuri, kugira ngo abo bana babone servisi z’ubuzima, bagere ku musaruro mwiza no mu myaka izaza ndetse no kugira ijambo ku hazaza ha sosiyete ubamo n’igihugu.

Hagendewe kuri ubwo busobanuro, u Rwanda ntacyo rufite kwigira ku miryango ikora ubuvugizi, itekereza ko ifite ijambo rya nyuma ku bigize uburenganzira bwa muntu mu bihe ibyo ari byo byose, mu mpande z’Isi zose.

Metro: Guverinoma yawe ivugwaho kubona Steve Hege, Umuhuzabikorwa w’itsinda rya Loni - wareze u Rwanda muri raporo ye guteza imidugararo mu Burasirazuba bwa Congo – Nk’umuntu ukorera ubuvugizi abantu bakoze Jenoside mu 1994. Niko mukibibona?

Paul Kagame: Tuzi ko impuguke zaje zifite ibitekerezo n’imyumvire zishyizemo. Ibyo turabyemera, hamwe na hamwe, ibi bizabangamira inyungu z’u Rwanda. Ariko hari aho ibi bihinduka ukubogama kwuzuye. Ku kibazo cy’umuhuzabikorwa w’itsinda ry’impuguke, yavuye ku mipaka y’impuguke aba umuvugizi wa politiki ufite aho abogamiye. Ibitekerezo bye birwanya u Rwanda birazwi, kandi imikorere ye no guhimba byakoreshejwe mu gukora iriya raporo ikomeretsa, bijyanye n’iyi myumvire ye idakwiye.

Mu nyandiko ze, uyu muhuzabikorwa yagaragaye nk’umuvugizi w’umutwe ukorera muri Congo w’abahezanguni bahanwe inshuro nyinshi n’Akanama ka Loni gashinzwe umutekano, ndetse abayobozi bawo nibo bayoboye Jenoside ndetse bashyirwa ku rutonde rw’abaterabwoba na Leta Zunz’Ubumwe z’Amerika.

Ntabwo bikwiye na gato ko umuntu ufite amateka nk’aya yakwicara agacira imanza u Rwanda cyangwa ikindi gihugu icyo ari cyo cyose kubw’izo mpamvu. Ni ukuri ntago bisanzwe. U Rwanda ntago ruzemera ko iki kibazi kibaho.

Metro: Guverinoma z’ibihugu byateye imbere, harimo na Leta Zunze Ubumwe z’Amerika, zahagaritse by’agateganyo inkunga ku Rwanda kubera ibirego bijyanye na M23. Ni iki ubona nk’ingaruka yabyo?

Paul Kagame: Ibihugu bimwe byagize icyo bikora kuri iyi raporo ya Loni ikoze nabi, bihagarika by’agateganyo inkunga batangaga ku Rwanda. Ibi birababaje, kuko duha agaciro umubano mwiza n’abafatanyabikorwa bacu mu iterambere. Gusa dufite icyizere ko izi nkunga zizafungurwa nitumara kuvuga ukuri kwacu. Ibi ni ubuhwituzi bw’akanya gato ku Banyarwanda buvuga ko tugifite inzira yo kugenda nk’igihugu, mbere y’uko twigenga by’ukuri. Kuzamuka kugaragara kw’ubukungu, by’umwihariko ishoramali mu bikorera, niyo nzira yonyine ifatika ku Rwanda. Abaterankunga kimwe n’abayihabwa bashobora guhungabanya umumaro w’inkunga mu buryo bworoshye, kandi ibi nibyo bibaho iyo ibihugu bikoresha idorali ry’iterambere nk’intwaro yo gutegeka ubushake bwa politiki ku bihugu bito cyangwa by’ibinya ntege nke.

Metro: U Rwanda ruvugwaho kugira inyungu z’ubukungu mu Burasirazuba bwa Congo. Mushinjwa gusahura amabuye y’agaciro muri Congo.

Paul Kagame: Ibi ni ibihimbano byahozeho. U Rwanda ruri ku isonga mu karere mu kurandura ubucuruzi bwa magendu mu mabuye y’agaciro. Dufite gahunda yo gutanga ibyangombwa ku mabuye y’agaciro. Tugendera ku mabwiriza. Vuba aha twasubije Congo Toni 80 z’amabuye y’agaciro yari yarambukijwe mu Rwanda mu buryo bwa magendu. Imiterere y’igihugu cyacu ituma inyungu z’ubukungu bwacu zigerwaho mu gihe Congo ifite amahoro n’iterambere, kuko bimeze gutyo , u Rwanda rwakungukira mu kwiyongera kw’ubucuruzi no kwambutsa amabuye y’agaciro mu buryo bwemewe n’amategeko. Ku musozo, u Rwanda rushyigikiye ishyirwaho ry’ingabo zitabogamye zemejwe mu nama y’ibihugu 11 bigize Inama Mpuzamahanga ku bihugu by’ibiyaga bigari muri Afurika. Iki ni igisubizo cyivuye muri ba nyir’ubwite ku kibazo cy’akarere.

Metro: Ikinyamakuru The New York Times cyavuze kuri raporo y’Umuryango Uharanira uburenganzira bwa muntu, ubashinja kugira ubutegetsi bw’igitugu. Ni iki muvuga kuri ibi birego?

Paul Kagame: Akenshi bavuga ku mategeko ajyanye n’ingengabitekerezo ya Jenoside, amategeko nishimiye cyane kurengera. Abanyarwanda ntago bazihanganira amajwi ateza imbere gusubira mu ivangura rishingiye ku moko ryateye Jenoside mu myaka 18 ishize. Kubw’ibyo, dushyira imipaka ku bwisanzura bwo kuvuga mu buryo bumwe n’ubwo u Burayi bwagize icyaha guhakana Holocaust(Jenoside yakorewe Abayahudi). Uretse ibyo, u Rwanda ni igihugu gifunguye kandi cyisanzuye cyane.

Hagendewe ku kwiyubaka kwacu nk’igihugu dufite inzego zo hasi, politiki zishingiye ku baturage twita “Kwishakira ibisubizo”. Kuvuga ko u Rwanda ruyobowe n’inzego zo hejuru bihabanye n’ukuri, kw’uko abaturage muri buri mudugudu bafite ijambo ku buryo ibintu bikorwa. Duha agaciro gukurikirana ibintu kandi Abanyarwanda baragenda bamenyera ubukungu bushingiye ku ikoranabuhanga. Byinshi mu bivugwa ku butegetsi bw’igitugu, bituruka ku isura yataye igihe y’Afurika.

Metro: U Rwanda rwagiye rufatwa nka”Israel y’Afurika”. Ni ibiki ubona ibihugu byombi bihuriyeho? Kandi ni ayahe masomo wakwigira kuri Israel, by’umwihariko ku bijyanye na LONI?

Paul Kagame: Kimwe na Israel, tuba mu karere kagoye. Dusobanukiwe y’uko umutekano w’igihugu ari ngombwa ku iterambere ry’ubukungu na sosiyete. Umurongo w’intego z’ibihugu byacu waturutse ku mahano akomeye. Dusangiye kandi abanenga ubuyobozi bwacu, ndetse n’uburenganzira bwacu bwo kubaho. Israel n’u Rwanda byombi byagize uruhare mu miryango mpuzamahanga na Loni irimo. Gusa ntekereza ko ibyo twanyuzemo byihariye nk’ibihugu, byashimangiye ubwigenge bukomeye tutazarekura.