Uretse kuba umwavoka, amaze imyaka itatu ayobora Urugaga rw’Abavoka mu Rwanda rugizwe n’abarenga 1600, rumaze kugira ishoramari rirenga miliyari 3 Frw mu myaka 28 rumaze rushinzwe.

IGIHE yagiranye ikiganiro n’uyu munyamategeko w’umwuga, agaragaza urugendo rwe muri uyu mwuga, imishinga itandukanye bafite haba mu iterambere ry’abavoka ku giti cyabo n’iry’igihugu.

Byagenze gute kugira ngo uhitemo kwiga amategeko hanyuma ube umwavoka?

Kwiga amategeko ni ikintu nifuzaga kuko natangiye kuyiga kuva hakiri za porogaramu zo kwigisha amategeko mu mashuri yisumbuye.

Narayize, nsoje amashuri yisumbuye nahise njya muri Kaminuza y’u Rwanda. Ni ho nize mu Ishuri ry’Amategeko kuva mu 2003-2008.

Hari umwaka umwe (wa 2004) wabaye imfabusa, usa nk’aho utabayeho kuko hari hahindutse porogaramu y’umwaka w’amashuri, hagombaga kujyaho indi kugira ngo batangire umwaka uko wakabaye.

Ndangiza Kaminuza mu 2008, mu 2009 ntabwo nagize ikintu nkora gifatika kuko twari mu bijyanye gushaka kwinjira mu Rugaga [rw’Abavoka] birangira mu 2010, hari ku wa 6 Mata 2010.

Icyo gihe ni bwo natangiye gukora umwuga wo kunganira mu mategeko. Kuva icyo gihe rero kugeza ubu harabura amezi make ngo imyaka 15 ngo yuzure nkora uwo mwuga.

Kuki wahisemo kuba umwavoka, aho kujya mu yindi mirimo y’Ubutabera?

Ni umwuga urimo icyo nakwita nk’umuhamagaro, ariko bifite agaciro gakomeye kuba umuntu yafasha abandi kugera ku butabera.

Kubafasha mvuga ntabwo ari uko wenda bitaba kuba umucamanza, umushinjacyaha cyangwa gukora indi mirimo, ariko kuba avoka numvise ari wo muhamagaro mfite ku buryo byagirira akamaro abashaka kugana ubutabera.

Buriya abavoka tuzi hano mu gihugu cyacu ni abo tubona mu nkiko gusa tuburana ariko hari abandi bafasha abacuruzi ndetse n’ibigo bitandukanye kugira ngo bibashe gukora mu buryo no mu nzira zikurikije amategeko.

Aba bita abanyamategeko bazwi nka ‘corporate lawyers’ bafite uruhare rukomeye cyane mu kubaka ubukungu bw’igihugu, kuko iyo abantu baje gushinga ubucuruzi mu gihugu nk’u Rwanda rurimo gusaba abashoramari kurushoramo imari barabafasha.

Rero numvaga uwo ari wo muhamagaro mfite. Nanakoze mu kigo gitanga ubujyanama mu mategeko cyitwa Trust Law Chambers. Byagiriye akamaro abo twunganiye ariko nanjye bingirira akamaro mu iterambere ryanjye n’umuryango wanjye.

Me Nkundabarashi yize amategeko kubera ko yumvaga ari wo muhamagaro afite

Ni izihe manza zikomeye waburanye, zatumye uzamuka muri uyu mwuga?

Hari imanza twakoze mu kigo cyacu ntekereza ko zishobora kuba zaragize uruhare rukomeye mu kugira ibyo zihindura.

Harimo nk’urubanza rujyanye no kwemeza ko itegeko ryari ryatowe rigenga ibyaha n’ibihano ko rinyuranye n’Itegeko Nshinga, twatsinze kuri bimwe ibindi urukiko rwemeza ko izo ngingo bitanyuranye n’Itegeko Nshinga.

Ntabwo cyari ikintu gito kuko ikintu cyose gishobora gutuma amategeko anoga cyangwa se gishobora gutuma abantu babona ibintu mu buryo butandukanye ariko urukiko rugatanga umurongo kiba ari ikintu gikomeye.

Mwaburanaga iki?

Twaburanaga ko hari ingingo zimwe zari mu itegeko ryerekeye ibyaha n’ibihano tuvuga ko zinyuranyije n’Itegeko Nshinga.

Ntanze nk’urugero, zimwe mu ngingo twavugaga ko zinyuranyije n’Itegeko Nshinga ni izijyanye no guhana abakora ibyaha by’ubushoreke n’ubusambanyi.

Kuki mwabibonaga mutyo? Ni izihe ngingo mwari mwishingikirije?

Tuvuga ko iyo ibyo byaha byabaye mu muryango ubundi ntibyagakwiye kuba bihanwa hakurukijwe amategeko nshinjabyaha, ahubwo kubera ko Leta ifite inshingano zo kurengera umuryango, icyagakwiye ni uko hakwiye kurebwa uburyo ibyo bibazo bikwiye kujya bikemurwa mu bundi buryo butari kujya mu nkiko mu manza nshinjabyaha.

Iyo bigiye mu nzira y’imanza nshinjabyaha, umwe mu bashakanye agafatwa agafungwa, bifite ingaruka z’uko wa muryango mu by’ukuri tutazongera kuwubona biba birangiye.

Nubwo uwo muryango uba usanzwe ufite ibibazo, ariko biba bisa nk’aho ari ukuwurangiza. Ni ho twavugaga tuti byari bikwiye ko ibi biba ibibazo bikwiye gukemurwa mu buryo bw’imbonezamubano, abantu bakicara bakanamenya impamvu y’ibyo byaha biba byototera umuryango.

Binafasha ko habaho ubwiyunge abantu bakabasha gusubirana bitandukanye n’uko umwe afunzwe. Iyo afunguwe aza avuga ati ‘waramfungishije ntabwo bishoboka ko nzongera kubana nawe’.

Ibyo bigira ingaruka ku muryango mu buryo bukomeye kuko umuryango asize usigara ufite ikibazo akenshi cyo kumugemurira ndetse no kumwitaho, hari ubwo muri uwo muryango haba harimo abana bakagwa muri ibyo bibazo by’amakimbirane ari hagati y’ababyeyi bombi.

Twaravugaga tuti rero uburyo bwiza sosiyete yacu yagakwiriye guhitamo gukemura ibibazo ni uko byavanwa mu byaha nshinjabyaha bikajya bikemurwa n’inama y’umuryango nk’uko ibibazo bijyanye n’izungura babihaye inama y’umuryango ku rwego rwa mbere, mbere y’uko bijyanwa mu nkiko.

Intumwa ya Leta ndetse n’urukiko byemeje ko ibyo byakomeza gufatwa nk’ibyaha ariko twe ku ruhande rwacu icyo twari tugamije cyari icyo kwibaza ngo ese iyo ibibazo bivutse ubikemura utera ibindi, ujyana umuryango aho utazabasha kugaruka? Cyangwa hagakwiye kubaho uburyo butuma uwo muryango ubasha gusigasirwa kugira ngo turebe ko ibyo bibazo byakemurwa mu bundi buryo?

Twaratekerezaga tukavuga tuti, gukumira ni byiza ariko uburyo bwo gukumira bwiza ni uko abantu bakwigishwa bakanakangurirwa ko ibyo bintu bitari byiza.

Ntabwo abantu baba barabumvise nk’abashaka ahubwo gutiza umurindi ibyo byaha?

Abantu batwumvise nabi batekereza ko twe twari tugamije ko ibyo byaha bikomeza gukorwa ariko si cyo twe twari tugamije.

Umuryango ni ryo shingiro rya sosiyete Nyarwanda kandi Leta ifite inshingano zo kuwurinda, noneho ukibaza uti ese kuwurinda ni ukohereza umwe muri gereza cyangwa yakurikiranwa wenda hakazamo no gufungwa.

Waburaniye na Nsabimana Callixte ‘Sankara’ wari ukurikiranyweho ibyaha birimo n’ibyiterabwoba…

Ni urubanza rwabayemo ibintu byinshi cyane bijyanye n’itangazamakuru ariko byanampaye isomo ko mu by’ukuri abantu batarumva icyo abavoka bakora.

Me Nkundabarashi yavuze ko kuburanira Sankara byatumye abona ko abantu batarumva icyo abavoka bakora

Kubera iki?

Kuba umwavoka w’umuntu ntabwo bivuze ko uba icyitso cye, ntabwo binavuze ko mugomba kuba musangiye intekerezo cyangwa se wumva ibintu uko we abyumva.

Bitavuze ko tugomba kwitandukanya n’abakiliya bacu, ariko iriya ni inzira y’ubutabera umuntu aba anyuramo kandi abantu bakwiriye kubyumva muri ubwo buryo.

Ni inzira y’ubutabera buri muntu wese yanyuramo, cyane noneho iyo harimo n’imiterere nk’iyo twarimo hariya yo kuvuga ngo umuntu yageze aho yumva ko akeneye kunyura mu nzira yo kwikosora, akeneye gusaba sosiyete imbabazi, anagabanyirizwe ibihano. Byarabaye ntekereza ko n’uyu munsi byamugiriye akamaro.

Iyo ushaka kubaka igihugu kigendera ku mategeko kirimo demokarasi cyangwa se gifite amahoro arambaye ntabwo habamo kwihorera ahubwo habamo inzira y’ubutabera.

Muri iyo nzira y’ubutabera rero harimo na cya cyintu cyo kumva ko umuntu uri kuri ruriya rwego aba agikekwa kandi agifatwa nk’umwere.

Biba bivuze ko igihe cyose umuntu ataranyura muri iriya nzira ngo ahamwe icyaha n’urukiko, cyangwa se agirwe umwere aba agomba kunganirwa, umwavoka akamwunganira akamuherekeza muri urwo rugendo.

Ntabwo ari byo. Hari imirongo ntarengwa ihari yo kuvuga ngo ese ibi bintu byarakozwe cyangwa ntibyakozwe, ese byitwa ikihe cyaha? Ese bihanishwa iki, byakozwe ryari ugereranyije n’igihe ayo amategeko yagiriyeho? Ese ibi bikorwa bifatwa nk’icyaha mu gihe nta mategeko yabiteganyaga icyo gihe? Ibyo bibazo byose biba biri mu manza nshinjabyaha.

Nubwo muri sosiyete icyo kwitiranya ibyo bintu kigihari ariko icyo abantu bakwiye kumva ni uko kunganira umuntu ari uburenganzira buri muntu yemererwa n’Itegeko Nshinga ndetse biba binafite akamaro kuko biba bigamije kugira ngo uwo muntu ace muri iyo nzira mu buryo bukwiye ndetse anazabashe kugororwa mu gihe icyaha cyaba kimuhamye abe yanagarurwa muri sosiyete.

Kuki mu nkiko bavuga ko hatsinda ufite ibimenyetso aho kuba ufite ukuri?

Kimwe mu bintu bikubiye mu ndahiro umuntu arahira mu ndahiro dufite mu itegeko rigenga Urugaga rw’Abavoka mu Rwanda, ni uko utazaburana urubanza utemera ko rurimo ukuri cyangwa se urubanza uhamanya n’umutimanama wawe ko rurimo ukuri.

Burya impamvu amategeko aba yaragiyeho agateganya ko ibimenyetso ari byo bigomba kugenderwaho, kuko burya ukuri nyakuri kugomba kuba gushyigikiwe n’ibimenyetso.

Biragoye kuba wavuga ko umuntu afite ukuri adafite ibimenyetso hanyuma ngo abasabwa gukemura icyo kibazo babashe kumenya uko kuri, kuko abacamanza, abavoka na bo ni abantu ntiwakwinjira mu mutima w’umuntu ngo umenye ko icyo umuntu avuga ari ukuri kunyuranye n’icyo yanditse mu gihe icyo kibazo cyari kitaravuka.

Icyakora igihari ni uko n’iyo bigaragaye ko hari ukuri kutagaragarira muri ibyo bimenyetso, inkiko zifite uburenganzira bwo gucukumbura gusa icyo navuga ni uko kumenya ukuri hari ubwo bigorana, Abanyarwanda baca umugani ngo ababurana ari babiri umwe aba yigiza nkana ariko igikomeye ni icyo.

Ukuri turakumenya dushingiye kuki? Ko aba bantu basinyanye amasezerano ari babiri nta wundi muntu wari uhari twamenya gute ko bayakoranye, ariko iyo hari inyandiko, ibimenyetso, noneho ubu dufite n’ikoranabuhanga, bifasha gukemura amakimbirane.

Urugaga uyobora, rwashyizweho mu 1997, icyo gihe rwabashije gukora gute bijyanye n’ibihe bigoye igihugu cyari kirimo?

Icyo gihe hashyizweho Urugaga rwa Kigali, rwari rufite abavoka 37 gusa, abenshi muri bo bari barize mu bihugu bitandukanye bari baragiye bakuriramo nk’u Burundi, Repubulika Iharanira Demokarasi ya Congo n’ahandi Abanyarwanda bari barahungiye kubera ibibazo by’amateka amateka y’igihugu cyacu.

Icyo gihe ni bwo urugaga rwatangiye.

Iyo urebye ubona ko Urugaga rw’Abavoka rw’u Rwanda hano mu Karere duherereyemo ni rwo rushya rukiri ruto, kuko ubu ubu hashize imyaka 28 mu gihe abandi bari mu myaka 60, 70, 100 hari n’abari hejuru, ariko igikomeye ni uko ubuyobozi bw’igihugu bwabonye ko ibyo bintu ari ngombwa bushyiraho urugaga.

Abo bavoka bavuye kuri 37 ubu bageze ku 1600 ariko harimo n’abantu b’ingeri zose, aha ndashaka kuvuga dufitemo n’abagore bagera kuri 450. Nabyita intambwe ikomeye kuko hari imirimo myinshi abagore batemererwaga gukora mbere ya 1994 kubera amateka y’igihugu cyacu.

Ni iki mwishimira cyagezweho mu myaka ishize hagiyeho urwo rugaga

Twishimira ko ari urwego rufite amikoro ku bijyanye n’imari n’ubukungu, dufite aho dukorera ndetse dufite n’izindi porogaramu nyinshi zitandukanye zituma abavoka barushaho kugira imibereho myiza.

Dufite ubwisungane mu kwivuza bw’urugaga burimo abavoka ndetse n’imiryango yabo ubu burimo abantu basaga 5.200, twumva ko ari umusanzu udahabwa abavoka gusa, ahubwo ari umusanzu ukomeye mu kubaka politiki yo kuba abantu bafite uko bivuza kuko icyo gihe tuba dushyigikiye politiki ya Mituweli, iya RSSB.

Twashyizeho imikoranire n’amavuriro atandukanye ndetse na za ‘pharmacie’ noneho ku misanzu yishyurwa n’abavoka buri mwaka tukagira icyo tuvanaho ari cyo twishyura abo bafatanyabikorwa batandukanye.

Twabikoze kubera ko twari tumaze kubona ko ahantu hatandukanye twajyaga gushaka serivisi zijyanye n’ubwishingizi, tutahabwaga izijyanye n’uko twabyifuzaga.

Cyari igitekerezo navuga ko cyari gishya kuri twe ariko kitari gishya mu Rwanda kuko twafashe urugero kuri Mituweli ya Kaminuza y’u Rwanda n’ibindi bigo.

Ni byo twarebeyeho. Ni gahunda imaze imyaka irindwi ikora, ariko igikeneye kunozwa.

Indi gahunda dufite ikomeye ni iyo gufasha abavoka bagiye mu zabukuru. Ni gahunda nibwira ko ari nziza, ngira ngo mu minsi ishize mwabonya amavugurura ya RSSB ajyanye no kwiteganyiriza, hari ikintu abantu tutarumva kuko uko imyaka ishira umuntu agenda asaza n’imbaraga zikagabanyuka, rero ni ingenzi ko abantu bateganyiriza ibyo bihe by’izabukuru ndetse ntibabe n’umuzigo ku babareberera cyangwa se kuri Leta.

Ubu dufite abantu bane bari muri iyo gahunda duherekeza mu zabukuru aho dufite icyo tubagenera buri kwezi ariko noneho tukanabagumisha muri ya gahunda yo kwivuza kuko umuntu ugeze mu zabukuru icya mbere aba akeneye aba ari ukwivuza kuko kubona ubushobozi bwo kwishyura ubuvuzi biba bikomeye, rero dutekereza ko ibyo na byo bifite uruhare rukomeye mu kunganira Leta mu buryo bwo kugira ngo abantu basazane icyubahiro.

Me Moïse Nkundabarashi yavuze ko Urugaga rw'Abavoka mu Rwanda rumaze kugira ishoramari ry'arenga miliyari 3 Frw

Ayo mafaranga ava mu misanzu cyangwa mufite ibindi bikorwa bibyara inyungu?

Twashyizeho izindi gahunda zijyanye n’ishoramari, dushyiraho ikigo cyitwa Advocate Investment Company, gikora imirimo itandukanye yo gushora imari kugira ngo kibashe kubona amafaranga yo gufasha ibikorwa by’urugaga no gutanga umusanzu mu zindi gahunda zitandukanye zigamije kuzamura ubukungu bw’igihugu.

Nkuhaye urugero, kimwe mu bikorwa dufite bikomeye twagezeho mu myaka icyenda ishize ni ukugura iriya nyubako yahoze yitwa SportsView iri imbere ya Stade Amahoro.

Ubu ni kimwe mu bikorwaremezo bidufasha gushyigikira ibikorwa by’urugaga harimo na za gahunda zose zirimo nk’iz’ubuvizi, kwishyura izabukuru kandi bigatuma twizera ko zizakomeza bidasabye kubwira buri gihe abavoka ko bagomba kwishyura imisanzu irenze iyo bishyura.

Nk’ubu iyo urebye umusanzu bishyura ubu umaze hafi imyaka umunani idahinduka.

Impamvu ni uko dutekereza ko tugomba kuba urwego rugomba kubaho rwaba rwabonye imusanzu y’abavoka cyangwa itabonetse.

Amafaranga mwaguze Sportview yari inguzanyo, mwabashije kuyishyura gute mu gihe gito?

Muzi sosiyete yitwa SUMMA. Ni ikigo cyubatse ibikorwaremezo byinshi bikomeye mu Mujyi wa Kigali harimo KCC, BK Arena, African Leadership University, bubaka na Amahoro Stadium.

Ni bo babaye muri iriya nzu. Amafaranga babishuye natwe baratwishyuye turangije twishyura ideni twari twarafashe muri Banki ya Kigali.

Ntabwo twirengagiza inshingano duhabwa n’itegeko zo gukomeza gukora ibijyanye n’amategeko y’umwuga ariko noneho uruhare rwacu mu kugira ngo ibindi bibazo bituzengurutse bikemuke ndetse tunagire uruhare mu iterambere ry’igihugu, ni uruhe?

Icyo ni cyo kibazo twibajije mbere y’ibindi, ariko iyo abantu bamaze kujya hamwe bakicara bagatuza bagatekereza uko ni ko ibitekerezo nk’ibyo ni ko byubakwa.

Ishoramari ryanyu riri mu bikorwaremezo gusa by’imitungo itimukanwa?

Dufite ubufatanye bukomeye na RNIT Iterambere Fund, twatangiye kwizigamira no gushora imari. Twabonye ko nta kigo na kimwe yewe na biriya bigeze ku myaka 100 cyarekeye aho gushaka inkunga, rimwe na rimwe zikazana n’amabwiriza atuma utinyagambura kuko ugutunze agutegeka.

Twashoye imari muri icyo kigega buri mwaka bishyura inyungu zigeze kuri 11,5%.

Amafaranga twashoyemo ubu bashobora kuba batwishyura nka miliyoni 8 Frw cyangwa miliyoni 9 Frw ya buri kwezi y’inyungu gusa, ni ukuvuga ngo mu myaka iri imbere tuzaba dufite ubukungu butajegajega tuzaba twarashyigikiye ubukungu bw’igihugu haba mu buryo bwo kwizigamira cyangwa ubwo gushora imari.

Ni yo nzira twafashe mu myaka itatu ishize gusa ntawo ari ibintu biba byoroshye.

Turi kubaka urugaga rufite izo ndangagaciro ku bijyanye n’umwuga w’abavoka kuko ni yo ntego nyamukuru ariko turi no kureba ikindi twakora mu guhugu gishobora kugirira abantu benshi akamaro.

Ubu ishoramari ry’urugaga rifite agaciro k’amafaranga angahe?

Navuga ko mu igenzura ry’umwaka ushize twagaragarije abavoka mu nama rusange, iyo urebye ikigo gishobora kuba gifite agaciro katari munsi ya miliyari 3 Frw cyangwa miliyari 4 Frw ziri mu bikorwa hakaba n’ikindi gice twakozemo ishoramari muri RNIT.

Ibyo navuga ko ari umusaruro utari muke ariko iyo nganira na bagenzi banjye mvuga ko dushobora gukora ibirenze ibyo, kuko abantu basobanutse 1600 bibumbiye hamwe bafasha abandi bantu kubaho no gukemura ibibazo byabo ibyo bintu maze kuvuga ni agatonyanga mu nyanja.

Mukora akazi kenshi, ariko ikijyanye n’ubunyamwuga buke nticyabura. Muri guhangana gute n’icyo kibazo?

Dukomeje gukora ibishoboka byose ngo abavoka bakore kinyamwuga, dukomeza guharanira ko igihe habaye ikibazo nk’amakosa y’umwuga babibazwa mu buryo butaziguye.

Iyo uvuze kubazwa inshingano habaho igihe dusanga ayo makosa batayakoze cyangwa hakaba igihe dusanga bayakoze, abayakoze bakayahanirwa abatayakoze tukabigaragariza uwaje kubarega.

Bikorerwa muri komisiyo ishinzwe imyitwarire. Ni Komisiyo irimo abantu batandukanye. Ifite igice kimwe kigizwe n’abavoka n’ikindi kigizwe n’abayobozi mu nzego zitandukanye.

Iyi komosiyo irakora kandi buri mwaka itanga raporo. Nk’umwaka ushize twabonye abavoka bane bakomeje gukora nyuma y’uko komisiyo yari yarabahagaritse kubera amakosa y’umwuga bari bakoze, uko ari bane barirukanwe.

Kuko ibyo baba bari gukora bishobora kugira ingaruka kuri izo manza ku buryo zishobora guteshwa agaciro.

Hari n’abandi benshi bazanywe muri iyi komisiyo kubera abo bakorana batazi uko urwego rw’abavoka rukora, bagasanze nta makosa ahari, barabibamenyeshwa ibibazo birakemuka.

Iyi komisiyo ni rutangira mu rugaga, ifasha mu gukemura ibyo bibazo no kubigabanya mu buryo bushoboka bwose.

Haracyari akazi ko gukorwa no kunoza, haracyarimo kureba mu mpande zitandukanye mu kumenya uko umwuga ukorwa, amakuru tubonye tukabasha kuyakoresha uko bishoboka kose ariko hari n’indi ntambwe twateye.

Ubu dusigaye dufite komisiyo ishinzwe kugenzura imikorere y’umwuga igihe cyose twabonye ko hari amakosa arimo gukorwa, ifitanye ubufatanye n’ubugenzuzi bw’urwego rw’ubutabera muri rusange.

Haba mu bushinjacyaha haba mu nkiko, haba mu bugenzacyaha n’ahandi. Ni ukugira ngo izo nzego zirebere hamwe uko ibibazo bishobora kuvuka mu myuga itandukanye byakemuka.

Ikindi navuga twakoze gikomeye ni ukwigisha abavoka no kubaha amahugurwa ahoraho buri gihe agaruka ku bintu bitandukanye bishobora kubafasha kunoza ibyo bakora, bibaho buri mwaka.

Me Nkundabarashi yavuze ko bari gukora ibishoboka byose ngo bakemura ikibazo cya bamwe mu bavoka barangwa n'ubunyamwuga buke

Mufitanye imikoranire imeze ite n’izindi nganga zo mu bindi bihugu?

Dufitanye imikoranire myiza n’ingaga zo mu Karere binyuze mu rugaga duhuriyemo ruzwi nka ‘East African Law Society), ruhuza ingaga zose zo muri Afurika y’Iburasirazuba.

Buri mwaka turahura tugasuzuma ibyo twagezeho ndetse tukanareba icyerekezo dushaka gufata mu rwego rw’imikoranire.

Hari byinshi bimaze kugerwaho nko kumenya gusangira amakuru ku buryo umwuga w’abavoka ukorwa mu karere. Ibyo byariyubatse mu myaka 30 uru rugaga rumaze rukora ariko haracyarimo n’imbongamizi.

Ntabwo turabasha kugira ubushobozi ngo bamwe bave mu gihugu kimwe bajye gukorera mu kindi cyangwa ngo bave mu bihugu byabo baze gukorerwa hano mu Rwanda.

Ndashimira igihugu cyacu kuko ibyo cyiyemeje byose bijyanye no gushyira mu bikorwa amasezerano agenga Umuryango wa Afurika y’Iburasirazuba (EAC), u Rwanda rwarabikoze, ariko iyo urebye mu karere usanga ari rwo rwonyine rwabikoze.

Ni ukuvuga ngo iyo amasezerano amaze gushyirwaho umukono ku rwego rw’akarere cyangwa ku rwego rw’ibihugu haba hagomba kubishyira mu mategeko y’ibihugu kugira ngo bitangire kubahirizwa.

Iyo urebye abaturage ba EAC usanga bafatwa nk’Abanyarwanda iyo bari hano mu Rwanda, byaba ku bijyanye n’inkiko, uburyo bwo kurega kugira ngo babe basabwa ingwate itangwa n’abanyamahanga byavanyweho, ndetse no ku bijyanye n’umwuga w’abavoka mu Rwanda, icyo kintu cyari cyashyizwemo imbaraga kugira ngo abantu bo mu bihugu bya EAC babasha kuza hano mu Rwanda babe bakwakirwa babashe gukora umwuga nta mbogamizi.

Ariko iyo ugiye mu bindi bihugu usanga kuva ayo masezerano ya EAC yabaho, n’ibindi byose abantu barayaryamishije ntabwo bigeze babikoraho.

Me Nkundabarashi yavuze ko hari ibitaranozwa ku buryo abavoka bo muri EAC bashobora gukorera mu bihugu biyigize uko babishaka

Muri iyi minsi turacyabona imanza zitinda, ugasanga umuntu agejeje ku mwaka ataraburana. Byakemuka gute?

Hashize imyaka ibiri Guverinoma y’u Rwanda yemeje politiki yo gukemura amakimbirane hatifashishijwe inkiko, ndetse ishyiraho na politiki y’ubutabera mpanabyaha (Criminal Justice Policy).

Hashize nk’imyaka ibiri hagiyeho gahunda nakwita nk’iya mbere ijyanye na ‘criminal justice policy’ bita pre-bargaining, uburyo bwo kuvuga ngo abantu bose binjiza imanza nshinjabyaha mu nkiko, niba hari bamwe bemeranywa n’ubushinjacyaha ko koko bakoze ibyaha, ni gute abo bantu imanza zabo zitamara imyaka itatu cyangwa ine mu nkiko zitarabunishwa?

Iyo gahunda yatangijwe n’Urwego rw’Ubutabera rufatanyije n’Urugaga rw’Ubushinjacyaha, ndumva hashize umwaka umwe n’igice, hamaze gukorwa amadosiye agera ku bihumbi 16.

Ni amadosiye yakorewe icyo nakwita nko kumvikana bishingiye ku kwemera icyaha, urukiko rugafata icyemezo iyo dosiye ikaba irangiye.

Ntabwo tuzajya mu nzira z’ubujurire, ntabwo tuzajya mu bindi bintu byose bishobora gutuma urwo rubanza rumara imyaka itanu mu nkiko.

Ndetse ntabwo binavuze ko kuba uwo muntu yemeye icyaha bivuze ko buri gihe aba agomba gufungwa. Ashobora kugabanyirizwa ibihano bigasubikwa agasubira mu baturage.

Niba tubara amadosiye ibihumbi 16 mu mwaka umwe n’igice, bifite igisobanuro gikomeye mu kugabanya bwa bucucike no mu kugabanya bwa bwinshi bw’imanza mu nkiko.

Ku bijyanye na politiki yo gukemura amakimbirane hatifashijwe inkiko, habayeho icyo nakwita nka gahunda yo kwigisha abantu bari muri izi nzego z’ubutabera kugira ngo bakangukire gukoresha ubuhuza.

Ikintu cyiza ni uko nko ku bireba urugaga dufite abantu 300 bamaze guhabwa amahugurwa muri iyo gahunda kandi bafite akamaro gakomeye ko guhindura imyumvire y’abantu no gutuma bakemura ibibazo bitarinze kujya mu nkiko, bikagabanya bwa bwinshi bw’imanza mu nkiko zigashobora gusigara zica imanza nke zikenewe koko kuba zajyanwa mu nkiko.

Ariko kubera ko izo politiki ebyiri ubu zimaze imyaka ibiri, ntabwo zirabasha gukemura ibibazo byose uko byakabaye, ndetse n’uburemere bw’ikibazo ntabwo zabashije kuburangiza by’igihe gito mu gihe gusa cy’imyaka ibiri kuko ari ikibazo cyari kimaze igihe kirekire na none mbere.

Iyo urebye icyerekezo cy’aho ishyirwa mu bikorwa ry’izi politiki rigeze, ni ukuvuga ngo harimo n’ikindi cyiciro cyo kuvugurura amategeko, kugira ngo amategeko yacu ahuzwe n’izo politiki, namara guhuzwa n’izo polotiki habashe kuba habaho kugabanya mu buryo bwose bushoboka bwa bucucike bw’aba ubwo mu magororero.

Ibyo bikajyana na gahunda zindi mwabonye nk’iyo mwabonye ejo bundi igihe Perezida wa Repubulika yatangaga imbabazi.

Iriya politiki y’ubutabera mpanabyaha ikimara kujyaho mu Ukuboza 2022, hasotse itegeko rivugurura ibijyanye n’itegeko ry’imiburanishirize mpanabyaha.

Byatumye nk’abasaba kuba barekurwa by’agateganyo, igihe bagombaga kumara mu igororero bagaragaza ko bitwaye neza byaragabanyijwe.

Bivuze ko ibyo na byo bigira uruhare ku mubare w’abaguma muri gereza igihe kirekire.

Ibyo byose bikeneye kuzuzanya n’ikindi kintu abantu bakumva ko guhana atari ugufunga gusa. Ahari ibyaha abantu bakora bakaba bashobora gucibwa amande ndetse bikadufasha kugabanya amikoro agenda muri ibyo bikorwa.

Muri raporo yatanzwe n’Ubushinjacyaha ubwo hatangizwaga umwaka w’ubucamanza, byagaragaye ko dufite ibyaha bibiri bibangamiye sosiyete Nyarwanda, birimo gukubita no gukomeretsa bigize 70% by’ayo madosiye yose.

Ku rundi ruhande ukanasanga ni n’urubyiruko. Ubu inzego z’umutekano ziri gufatanya kugira ngo nyuma y’itorwa rya ziriya politiki, hashyirweho uburyo bwo gukumira ibyaha bitaraba, kuko ubu abantu baba bameze nk’abari kurwana n’ingaruka.

Hakarebwa ku cyabaye mu muryango Nyarwanda gituma ibi byaha bikomeza kwiyongera. Usanga ahanini harimo gukoresha ibiyobyabwenge, guta ishuri, ubushomeri n’ibindi.

Ibyo byose biri kurebwaho hanarebwa uko byakemuka kugira ngo bigabanye wa mubare wa bya bibazo turi kubona nk’ingaruka z’uko sosiyete imeze.

Ni iki mubona abakoresha imbuga nkoranyambaga bagomba kwitaho muri ibi bijyanye n’Ubutabera?

Abakoresha imbuga nkoranyambaga bakwiye kujya batekereza kabiri mbere y’uko bagira ibyo batangaza, cyane cyane iyo bigeze ku butabera nshinjabyaha.

Abantu baraza bagakora ibikorwa bigize ibyaha rimwe batanabizi, ubundi banabizi ukibaza niba se babikora nkana, noneho ugasanga abantu bari ku mbuga nkoranyambaga bavuga ibintu bishobora kubagiraho ingaruka mu rwego rw’amategeko, hari n’abafunzwe kubera ibyo bibazo.

Ku bigendanye n’ubutabera mpanabyaha ho abantu bakwiye kwirinda cyane. Iyo iperereza ritangiye gukorwa ku gikorwa runaka biba bivuze ko rigomba gukorwa mu ibanga, impamvu rikorwa mu ibanga ni ukugira ngo hatagira ibiribangamira.

Iyo uvuze ko iperereza rikorwa mu ibanga ugasanga ku rundi ruhande abantu ku mbuga nkoranyambaga bari guca urwo rubanza, amazina, amafoto, ibikubiye muri dosiye by’uwo muntu byagiye hanze, bitera ibibazo mu butabera nshinjabyaha bitagira ingano.

Mbwira abantu ko gutekereza ku kintu ugiye gushyira ku mbuga nkoranyambaga, yaba ifoto y’umuntu uvuga ko yafashwe na RIB cyangwa hari ikindi kintu cyamubayeho, ujye ubanza utekereze ko ejo na we iyo foto yawe bashobora kuyishyira kuri izo mbuga.

Wakumva umeze gute? Nturaburanishwa, nturahamwa n’icyaha uracyafatwa nk’umwere, nturajya no kuburana ngo abantu bamenye ibyo ukirikiranyweho n’uko wiregura, noneho warangiza ugasanga ifoto y’umuntu iri kuri X, ni ibintu byo kwirindwa cyane. Bigira n’ingaruka no ku migendekere y’urubanza.

Me Nkundabarashi yasabye abakoresha imbuga nkoranyambaga kwitondera ibyo bazandikaho mu gihe bifite aho bihuriye n'ubutabera

Ntabwo ibyo abantu bavuga ku mbuga nkoranyambaga bishobora kugira ingaruka ku migendekere myiza y’urubanza?

Izi manza abantu baca ku mbuga nkoranyambaga abacamanza baba babikurikira, umuntu waciye kuri izo mbuga nkoranyambaga n’utaciyeho bazahabwa ubutabera bumwe?

Niba abacamanza bumva ibyo bintu, bibagiraho ingaruka mu buryo bw’ubwigenge, ndashaka kuvuga ko bigoye gufata ibintu kimwe ku muntu waje imbere yawe utamuzi n’undi waraye ubona bakozeho ibiganiro bitandukanye, bamuvuzeho inshuro nyishi kuri izo mbuga.

Ibyo bintu rero bigira ingaruka ku butabera cyane ubutabera nshinjabyaha ku buryo numva byaba byiza abantu babyirinze.

Itangazamakuru ntabwo rizareka gukora akazi karyo, ntabwo rizarekera gutangaza inkuru, ariko iyo nkuru watangaje wayiyunguruye?

Kwihutira gutangaza amakuru bwa mbere ni cyo kintu cya mbere kigezweho ariko ushobora gusanga uri kumena amabanga y’iperereza ritaranagera aho rishaka ko rigera, bikanaribangamira mu buryo bw’uko hari abantu bashobora kuba barafatanyije n’uwo muntu utangaje bari bucike ubutabera, basibanganye ibimenyetso cyangwa se bari bwimure ibyagombaga gushakishwa mu iperereza.

Ku rundi ruhande hakaba hari ikibazo cyo kuvuga ngo uwo muntu na we tuba tumushyize ku karubanda tutaramenya niba ari umwere cyangwa azahamwa n’icyaha.

Ibyo bintu dukwiye kubyirinda no kubyihorera. Ntibibujije y’uko umunyamakuru ashobora kujya mu rubanza, akumva ibyo ubushinjacyaha bwavuze, ibyo uwiregura yavuze agakora inkuru irimo impande zombi.

Biranashoboka kuvuga ko hari ibigisuzumwa ukaba wakwirinda gutangaza amazina, hari ubwo mujya mutangaza inkuru ariko itarimo amazina y’abantu, ibyo byose ni ibintu dushobora gukora itangazamakuru rigakora kinyamwuga n’ubutabera bugakora kimwuga.

N’aba bantu bitwa ko bavuga rikumvikana ku mbuga nkoranyambaga, ngira ngo mu minsi ishize RIB yarabakebuye, ntabwo ari byo, mwitonde ushobora gutangaza amakuru ashobora kukugiraho ingaruka cyane cyane iyo bigeze ku gukurikiza inzira zigana mu nkiko.