Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi mu 1994 yabaye Serge Kamuhinda afite imyaka 12. Aho bari batuye i Butare [ubu ni mu karere ka Huye] bahise bahungira mu Burundi, ubuzima butangira bundi bushya.

Nyuma y’uko Jenoside ihagaritswe n’Inkotanyi, uyu mugabo kimwe n’abandi bari bamaze kurokoka biyubatsemo ubudaheranwa baharanira kubaho ngo baheshe ishema abazize Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi.

Mu kiganiro cyihariye yagiranye na IGIHE, Kamuhinda yagaragaje ko imiyoborere myiza iranga u Rwanda rwa nyuma ya Jenoside ari yo shingiro ry’ibikorwa by’iterambere birimo no kuba hari inganda zikomeye zirimo na Volkswagen ayoboye zikorera mu Rwanda.

IGIHE: Nyuma y’imyaka 30 Jenoside irangiye, ni iyihe shusho itagusibangana mu mutwe?

Kamuhinda:Ikitu udashobora gusiba ni ukuntu abantu bari bameze, ni agahinda kadafite izina, jenoside isa nk’aho yaje ikareba ahantu ikiremwa muntu gikura urukundo, hose igashyiramo agahinda. Tuzi ko ushobora kugira ababyeyi, cyangwa se ababyeyi bakagira abana bikabaviramo ibyishimo n’urukundo.

Aho rero ababyeyi barishwe, abana baricwa imbere y’ababyeyi babo, abakundana barabishe babicira imbere y’amaso yabo ndetse mu buryo bubi, cyane cyane abagore. Ukaba wakunda sogokuru wawe cyangwa nyogokuru wawe na we agakunda umwuzukuru we, na bo baragiye barabica.

Kumva ko umuntu wari sogokuru akabona abuzukuru barabishe, ni agahinda gateye ubwoba. Noneho nk’iyo iki gihe umuntu yageze aho akabyara na we ni ibintu nyine na we wongera ukavuga uti mbese ni gute umuntu ashobora kukwicira umwana imbere yawe?

Ahantu hose umuntu yakabaye akura urukundo hagiye hajyamo agahinda noneho umuntu akagera aho akibaza ati ese ni iyihe mpamvu yo gukomeza kubaho? Watekereza ukayibura kuko abo bantu bose bagiye bicwa mu buryo bubi cyane, ukavuga uti ese kuki washaka kuba muri iyo si? Kuki washaka kuba ku Isi abantu bafashe umwana bakamujugunya ku gikuta, bagafata umubyeyi ku ngufu, bakica abasaza bakica abakecuru iyo si ubundi ni iki umuntu yaba ayishakamo?

Icyatumaga abantu bavuga bati kwiyahura ntabwo byaba ari byo, bararebaga bati na none wemeye nawe ukagenda, ya jenoside yaba itsinze, noneho yaba irangiye pe.

N’abo bantu muhuye niba wemera ko uzahura n’abantu bapfuye, bakugaya bakakubwira bati ariko sha ko twagusize inyuma ko nawe ahubwo wari utuzi, ko wari uzi uko twabagaho, indangagaciro zacu igihugu ugisigiye ba nde? Ugisigiye abagihekuye nawe uraje urekeye aho? Bigatuma na none abantu bavuga bati kwiyahura cyangwa kwiheba ntibyaba ari umuti, kwibuka kuzima byaba ari ukubaho, ni cyo nkeka icyo gihe cyabaga kiriho.

Ushatse kuvuga ko ku myaka 12, mu rungano rwawe hari harimo kwiheba cyane?

Cyane rwose, kuko urebye ukuze uba uvuga uti ndarebera ku babyeyi banjye, ku zindi nzego wabonaga muri icyo gihe nka kiliziya, abandi bantu bose wabonaga ko bafite ubushobozi, muri Jenoside nta rwego na rumwe rwabashije guhagarika jenoside ahubwo inzego nyinshi zabigizemo uruhare, na none nta mubyeyi cyangwa se umuntu mukuru wabashije kugira ubushobozi bwo kurinda ibyo bintu ngo ntibibe ku muryango we. Uri umwana rero icyo wabonaga ni uko nta kintu na kimwe gihari cyashoboye kurinda ibyo bintu, keretse umuntu umwe.

Ni na ho abantu batajya bumva neza uburemere duha Perezida Kagame, nta muntu n’umwe wabashije, yaba ari kiliziya bavuga, inzego mpuzamahanga yaba ari n’ababyeyi bawe, na ba bantu bose wakuze ubona ko bashoboye, washoboye guhagarika ibyo bintu atari Perezida wa Repubulika [Paul Kagame].

Havamo igihango gikomeye cy’ubuzima bwose kuko n’ubundi nta muntu n’umwe noneho waza kuri iyi si ngo akubwire ikintu kirenga bwa buremere uha wa muntu, kuko ubwo bushobozi ntiyabugize icyo gihe. None se ubu ni iki yakubwira?

Iyo umuntu yakuraga akagenda yumva aho Perezida wa Repubulika avuze, ni ya mvugo nyine ngo Inkotanyi ni ubuzima, aho ubuzima bwari bwaravuye icyabugaruye ni icyo nta kindi.

Ese nyuma y’imyaka 30 ubona ubwiyunge bwaragezweho, cyangwa hari ibigikwiye kunozwa?

Ubundi kunga Abanyarwanda byasaga nk’aho ari ikintu kidashoboka, n’ubundi kandi ubwiyunge ni igipimo ntabwo ari ahantu umuntu agera akavuga ngo yahageze byarangiye, ni uguhozaho.

Biterwa n’icyo Banyarwanda bahisemo mu byo bakora umunsi ku wundi. Iyo urebye ahantu tuvuye, ni igitangaza ahubwo kuko aho tugeze nta n’uwari gutekereza ko tuzahagera.

Hari nk’igihe tugira abashyitsi b’abanyamahanga tukajya muri restaurant nkababwira nti ko tugiye gufata ifunguro, nzi uwatetse ibi biryo ari inde? Ariko kera mu 1995 byari ikibazo, abantu baribazaga bati ese uyu muntu ntabwo arandoga, ariko ubu iyo ubajije umunyarwanda akubwira aho ashaka kugana, agaciro yumva afite ku buryo wavuga ko tugeze ahantu hashimishije nubwo tutakwirara kuko za ngufu zagiye zishaka gusenya u Rwanda ni muri iyi si n’ubundi zaturutse ntabwo ari ibintu by’ibivejuru baturutse ahandi, ziba zigihari.

Bisaba rero ko umuntu agomba guhozaho akibutsa kandi ko intumbero y’amacakubiri itangira ari nto cyane, ari akantu ubona gasuzuguritse kakagenda gakura ari yo mpamvu n’ibihugu byose ku Isi bitajya byihanganira umuntu washaka kubangamira ubumwe bw’abaturage.

Kuko ubumwe bw’abaturage ntabwo ari ikintu abanyapolitike bafite uburenganzira bwo gukinamo, bujyana n’ubusugire bw’igihugu, butangira mbere ya politike. Buha urubuga abanyapolitike bakajya impaka, bakavuga bati njye mbona ikinogeye iki gihugu mu rwego rw’ubukungu ari iki, abandi bati twashyira amafaranga aha ariko ntabwo umuntu yaza ngo avuge ati njye ndabona iki gihugu kidakwiye kubaho, na rubanda idakwiye kuba rubanda.

Icyo gihe ntabwo uba ukiri umunyapolitike, uba uri umunyabyaha. Nta hantu ku Isi nabaye nari nabona ibyo bintu byihanganirwa, ni yo mpamvu natwe iyo myumvire ikwiye kuba ihari, ihamye yo gutandukanya umunyapolitike n’umunyabyaha.

Icyaha gitangira ku muntu mu mvugo ye icyo agamije ari uko u Rwanda rutaba u Rwanda. Hari ahantu rero abantu babigiramo urujijo abandi bakabigira nkana ariko wanabitekereza no mu rugo cyangwa se mu rwego runaka, ntawaza avuga ko gahunda afite ari ugusenya urwo rwego ngo uvuge ngo aracyafite igitekerezo cy’urwo rwego.

Ese ubona ‘Ubunyarwanda’ bwaragarutse ku buryo bwarenze icyatandukanyaga abantu?

Iyo ubirebye usanga guhera mu gihe cy’ubukoloni, kandi iyo ubirebye usanga hagenda hacamo imyaka 30. Urebye nko ku gihe ubukoloni bwamaze nko mu 1896 ku mwaduko w’abazungu no kwima k’umwami Musinga hashira ngirango imyaka 35, ubundi hakaza ingoma ya Rudahigwa, yabaye mu bukoloni hakaza indi myaka ijya kugera kuri 30, n’ingoma ya PARMEHUTU na yo ijya kumara iyo myaka kugeza mu 1994.

Iyo ubirebye gutyo usanga guhera mu gihe cy’ubukoloni ubwo bunyarwanda bwarabaga busumbirijwe ugasanga igihugu nta ngabo gifite, ingabo zigizwe n’Ababiligi n’abazayirwa babaga bazanye icyo gihe nyuma yahoo bikagenda ukundi, urebye rero izo ngufu zagiye zishyirwamo n’iyo myaka yashize ntabwo wakabaye ukibona ubwo bunyarwanda.

Kuba ubunyarwanda tukibuvuga iki gihe ubwabyo birerekana ko budashobora kuzima kuko nta kitarageragejwe. Niba nyuma ya Jenoside ubwo bunyarwanda hari n’utekereza kubuvuga, akabwitangira ni ukuvuga ko n’ubundi nta kitarageragejwe ngo buzime ariko biranga.

Iyo urebye mu gihe Inkotanyi ziza muri CND ziri muri za bisi abaturage bagiye mu muhanda bakoma amashyi. Ni ubunyarwanda muri iyo leta batashoboye gufata ngo bahambire, noneho wajya nyuma yaho mu kuvanga ingabo, abantu bafite imbunda bagiye ku rugamba, niba bakabaye basubiranamo ni icyo gihe basubiranamo.

Ko bagiye bakarwanira igihugu kimwe? Noneho ukareba wa muntu biciye umuryango we wose akavuga ati rero muri uru Rwanda rushya njye ntanze inkunga yo kubabarira. Ubundi ugiye ku Isi hose, mu gihugu icyo ari cyo cyose ntawayiguha, n’iyo wamuha amafaranga angana uko angana kose ntawayiguha.

Ubwo bunyarwanda byaragaragaye noneho icyiza cy’ubu muri iyi myaka 30 ishize, za mbuto zagiye zigaragaza umunyarwanda wese akabona amahirwe. Muri ya myaka ya nyuma ya 1994 aho wagendaga wirindaga kuvuga ko uri umunyarwanda, ufite isoni rwose kuko wumvaga abandi bantu bari gutera imbere wowe uravuga ko uri umunyarwanda ntanubwo bumvaga amateka yawe bahitaga bakubonamo ikibazo.

Ariko ubu uragenda aho ari ho hose wavuga ko uri umunyarwanda bakavuga ngo icara utubwire. Urumva rero ubunyarwanda bwaraduhiriye, …Perezida wa Repubulika yigeze kubivuga mu ijambo ngo ubunyarwanda nk’igitekerezo bwakorewe iyicarubozo ariko ntibwigeze buzima.

Ni cyo kintu wavuga ngo ni igitangaza abantu bazakomeza kubakiraho, icyiza cyabyo kandi ni uko ari igitangaza cyakozwe n’Abanyarwanda, ari na ho wavuga ngo bisa nk’aho ari ukongera kuzuka k’u Rwanda, bikaba bitugaragariza y’uko ubundi nta kibi twakabaye twikanga ngo kije gusenya u Rwanda kuko nta kibi tutahuye na cyo kije gusenya u Rwanda.

Wize mu Bufaransa mu gihe ibihugu byombi bitari bibanye neza, mwabyitwaragamo mute ngo musobanurire abandi ko icyo gihugu yagize uruhare muri Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi?

Wowe uturutse i Rwanda, iki kibazo wagifataga 100%, ariko wagera muri icyo gihugu uzi ko cyohereje abasirikare, warababonaga kuri bariyeri, wabonaga ibifaru by’Abafaransa bigenda ndibuka ko turi n’abana twabapeperaga, wasangaga abaturage baho ibyo bintu batanabizi.

Cya kibazo wowe wafatanga nka 100% ugasanga kizwi n’abantu 1%, icyo Abanyarwanda twatuye mu Bufaransa muri icyo gihe twumvise cyane ni uko ibibazo byabaye byatejwe n’Abafaransa bamwe batari benshi, batanabaye bagutera ubwoba kuko bagiye bakora mu buryo bunyuranyije n’amategeko y’igihugu cyabo kandi ntabwo bafite izo mbaraga z’icyo gihugu bavuga ngo bavugira.

Ukumva rero ko icyari ngombwa cyane cyane byari ubukangurambaga bwo gusobanurira abantu, wabasobanurira bakavuga bati ese ibyo birashoboka? Ariko kubw’amahirwe hari n’Abafaransa ubwabo bandikaga bandikaga, bakavuga bati nyamara dore uko byagenze, ndetse tukazana na bo hano mu Rwanda n’abandi twiganaga, bakumva abatangabuhamya, bagacukumbura ni mu nyandiko zabo bagasanga koko ni ukuri….ubirebye bwa mbere wavuga ngo ni igihugu cyose cy’u Bufaransa cyaduteye ariko si ko byari bimeze nubwo bakoresheje ingufu za Leta mu gukora ibyo bakoze icyo gihe.

Imara properties yavutse ite?

Muri abo bana twiganaga hari bamwe bari bamaze kumva akababaro kacu tukajya tuzana hano mu Rwanda, tugakora ibikorwa byo kwibuka mu Bufaransa, noneho nyuma yahoo baza bakavuga bati ariko imibanire yacu ikwiye gutera imbere ikerekeza aho u Rwanda rugeze kuko ari muri twebwe ntitukiri abanyeshuri kandi n’ubundi turabona u Rwanda ruri gutera imbere.

Turatekereza turavuga tuti ni iki kintu twakora dufatanyije? Turavuga tuti ikintu twakora ni ukubaka ahantu abantu bahurira bagaturana hari ahantu abana bakinira, babanye neza kandi tugafasha n’umuntu ushaka gutunga inzu kuyigira afatanyije n’abandi. Ni aho rero icyo gitekerezo cyaturutse cyo kubaka imidugudu, kuko iyo wubatse umudugudu ntabwo uba wubatse inzu, uba wubatse urugaga rw’umuryango.

Twagize amahirwe y’uko byakunze, twubaka umudugudu wa kabiri wararangiye, tugiye gukora uwa gatatu n’uwa kane uri mu nzira. Nk’ubu hari abantu tujya nko kwigaragambya twamagana ibintu bibi biri gukorwa icyo gihe, hari hakiri bya bintu by’abacamanza bitwa ba Bruguière basohoraga ibintu bitabaho, wafataga gari ya moshi ukabona ugahura n’umuntu ukabona ni umunyarwanda na we uri undi noneho mugahangana mu myigaragambyo.

Wa wundi wacuye aha simpamya ko hari aho ageze hashimishije. N’iyo yaba yarabonye akazi keza muri icyo gihugu, nta gihugu afite, nta midugudu yubatse, nta bana barerewe mu gihugu cyabo biragaragara rero iyo igihe gihita, guhitamo neza birigaragaza.

Ni iki abanyamahanga batangarira u Rwanda rwakoze mu myaka 30 ishize?

Abantu batangara baravuga bati ni gute abantu barwanyaga Leta basa nk’aho ari bo bashaka ko igaruka? Mu mateka icyo kintu kiratangaje. Biratanaje ko ya leta warwanyaga imaze kwica abantu urwanira ko yongera ikabaho, ndetse na ba bantu ukababwira uti nimugaruke twongere dukore leta.

Uyu munsi uyobora Volkswagen, ariko wanyuze no mu yindi mirimo, aho hantu hose wahageze ute?

Ni amahirwe nta kindi, ntabwo ari ukubera ubushobozi runaka kuko akenshi wasangaga wiga kurusha ko ko hari ikindi uzana. Ni ayo mahirwe kandi biragaragara ko byakomeje kubaho kuko biragaragara ko na n’ubu uracyabona mu nzego zitandukanye urubyiruko, ni na cyo kintu ubirebye neza gitandukanye mu Rwanda na RPF kuko ahandi hose imitwe yo kubohora igihugu usanga baha agaciro ba bantu babitangiye, kubera ya myumvire yabo itandukanye na n’ubu ni icyo tukigenderaho.

Ariko RPF kuva kera ifite cyo gitekerezo cy’uko kuva kera urubyiruko ari zo mbaraga kandi muri uru rugendo rwo kubaka u Rwanda bavuga bati abakuru n’abato bafatanye. No ku Isi no mu bihugu bitandukanye ntabwo ubona ko urubyiruko ruhabwa amahirwe nk’ayo.

Byagenze bite ngo uruganda rwa Volkswagen ruze mu Rwanda?

Urebye iki gitekerezo cyo gutangiza uruganda, wareba uti ni ibihe bintu abantu bakeneye by’ibanze? Usanga ari amafunguro, aho batura ariko n’ubwikorezi burimo. Wasesengura ugasanga cyane cyane mu bwikorezi ari ho hantu Afurika itigeze igira uruhare mu nyongeragaciro…wareba ukavuga uti isoko rirahari kuko abantu bakeneye ubwikorezi, kuki nta ruganda ruratangira gukora inyongeragaciro?

Ugasanga aho bituruka ni imiyoborere y’ibihugu byacu, dukunda kwinjiza imodoka zishaje ndetse zangiza ibidukikije kandi ntabwo wazijyana muri bank ingo ube wabona inguzanyo n’izindi politike zitandukanye zituma nta sosiyete yavuga ngo muri iki gihugu nazamo nkatangira iyo gahunda. Kuba mu Rwanda ari ho byabereye bigaragaza ko ushobora kuba ufite isoko rinini ariko udafite iyo miyoborere ntacyo rikumarira.

Akazi kanoze karuta isoko, abantu baravuze bati nubwo u Rwanda rufite isoko rito, ariko iyo miyoborere irahari. Kubaka rero urwo rwego ni iymaka myinshi, nta hantu ku isi byigeze biba mu gihe gito. Igihugu ubona cyabigizemo amahirwe nab wo ubona byagitwaye imyaka nka 20 ni Maroc. Ariko ubundi urebye nko muri Aziya byagiye bitwara imyaka irenze 30.

U Rwanda rero twaratangiye, aho tugeze harashimishije. Imodoka uwagera ku muhanda wese ntiyashidikanya ko hari imodoka nshya za Volkswagen ku muhanda, abantu barazigura, barazitwara batarize kuzigura muri serivisi za taxi, ndetse n’imodoka z’amashanyarazi zaraje ziri no kwiyongera.

Ni urugendo rero rwatangiye rwiza kandi rutanga icyizere ko n’ejo hazaza u Rwanda ruzabona umwanya waryo muri iyo ngeri y’inganda z’imodoka kuko ya nzira wafashe nziza ukiyitangira bashobora kuguseka, bashobora kuguhinyuza nk’uko bamwe banabikoze ariko mu myaka 20 cyangwa 30 iri imbere tuzaba tureba.

Ni iki kigushimisha iyo urebye aho igihugu kigeze?

Ikintu kinshimisha kurusha ibindi ni uko ubu ndi umubyeyi mfite abana, ni ukumva ko bakura mu buryo butandukanye cyane n’uko njye nakuze, ahubwo nkabona ko bakurira mu gihugu kizabaha amahirwe ko impano bafite zizagerakure.

Si n’abana banjye gusa, nkareba n’abandi bana bo mu Rwanda ugasanga uhura n’umwana ukabona yagize impamyabushobozi y’ikirenga mu bintu utanatekerezaga ko bibaho…aho ururiye n’urubyiruko rw’u Rwanda hose uhasanga ibintu utari uzi.

Reba ikiganiro IGIHE yagiranye na Serge Kamuhinda

Kamuhinda yagaragaje ko imiyoborere myiza iranga u Rwanda rwa nyuma ya Jenoside ari yo shingiro ry’ibikorwa by’iterambere