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Kuba Minisitiri w’Intebe, uko yahunze n’abamusabye kugambanira igihugu - Ikiganiro na Dr Rwigema Pierre-Célestin

Yanditswe na Akayezu Jean de Dieu
Kuya 8 Nyakanga 2021 saa 07:12
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Dr Pierre Célestin Rwigema ni umugabo wo guhamya urugamba rukomeye Guverinoma irangajwe imbere na FPR Inkotanyi yarwanye kugira ngo ibyo benshi babonaga nk’ibidashoboka bikunde, u Rwanda rube ari igihugu cyishimirwa n’ab’ingeri zose uyu munsi.

Ubu afite imyaka 68 y’amavuko. Yabaye Minisitiri w’Intebe muri Guverinoma yari iyobowe na Pasiteri Bizimungu hagati ya 1995 na 2000 mbere yaho yabaye Minisitiri w’Uburezi mu gihe cy’umwaka umwe [1994-1995].

Ni Umudepite uhagarariye u Rwanda mu Nteko Ishinga Amategeko ya Afurika y’Iburasirazuba [EALA].Mbere ya Jenoside yari Umuyoboke wa MDR. Mu 2001, yaje gushinjwa kugira uruhare muri Jenoside, hashize iminsi mike yeguye ku mwanya wa Minisitiri w’Intebe.

Byatumye ahunga ava mu Rwanda ajya muri Leta Zunze Ubumwe za Amerika, ashaka ubuhungiro nk’umunyapoltiki. Muri icyo gihe yarimo akomereza amasomo ya Masters muri Bowling Green State University muri Leta ya Ohio.

Ihunga rye ryavuzweho byinshi ndetse bivugwa ko yageze iyo imahanga akareshywa n’abantu b’ingeri zitandukanye kugira ngo yiyunge ku barwanya FPR Inkotanyi.

Ibi byose ni byo yagarutseho mu kiganiro kirambuye yagiranye na IGIHE.

IGIHE: Waba wibuka uko winjiye muri Politiki n’icyabiteye?

Dr Rwigema: Inkundura y’amashyaka ije, ntabwo nabigiyemo. No muri MRND baje kunsaba kujyamo ndanga, gusa naje kurushwa imbaraga n’uko icyo kintu cyari gikomeye i Gitarama aho nkomoka, barantumira kugira ngo njyemo ndanga, mbanza kubaha icyo nakwita ubufasha, bageze aho bati ’amafaranga ntabwo tuyashaka ni wowe dushaka’.

Mbura uko mbigenza, nemera kujya mu nzego zikomeye z’ishyaka rikomeye iwacu, dutangira tuvuga ko tugiye kurwanya Habyarimana, kandi akomeye ariko twe nta n’imbaraga dufite; nta mbunda twagiraga […]. Ni uko ngiye iwacu muri Kigoma bahita bantora mu nzego, bigeze kuri Perefegitura ngira ngo nabaye uwa gatatu. Ni uko ninjiye muri politiki.

Hari n’abavuga ko wigeze kwigumura kuri Habyarimana; ni ukuri?

Mu 1993, Habyarimana yabonye ko opozisiyo ikomeye, ahitamo kugira ngo abikatemo kabiri, ari na bwo bamwe yabahaga icyo nakwita nk’ubushobozi cyangwa amafaranga, barabagura abandi turanga.

Ndibuka ko muri kongere yabereye i Gitarama, nafashe ijambo mbabwira ko ntashobora kubyemera, ndasohoka, ikindi gipande kinini kirankurikira. Ni uko byacitsemo kabiri, noneho rero abantu batangira guhigana.

Ubwo icyo gihe hari abagiye ku ruhande rw’Inkotanyi...

Hari abashyigikiye Habyarimana abandi tuvuga rumwe n’Inkotanyi, abantu batangira guhigana hagati yabo kuko ibyo twari twaremeranyije nka Demokarasi bamwe basa nk’aho bagambaniye abandi kubera ko ubutegetsi bwabaciyemo kabiri.

Wabaye Minisitiri w’Uburezi wa mbere nyuma ya Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi; usobanura ute uko izo nshingano zari zimeze?

Kuba Minisitiri w’Uburezi nyuma ya Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi mu 1994 ni nk’inzozi kuko nanjye iyo nsubije amaso inyuma hari igihe nibaza uko nabikoze ariko narabikoze.

Mu 1994 kukubaza umubare w’abanyeshuri, abarimu bari mu gihugu noneho hagakubiraho n’uko u Rwanda rwarimo rwakira ababyeyi bazanye n’abana babo bavuye muri Kenya bize mu cyongereza, bavuye muri Tanzania bize mu Kiswahili, bavuye muri Uganda bize mu Cyongereza, abavuye muri Repubulika Iharanira Demokarasi ya Congo bize mu Gifaransa abavuye i Burundi bize mu Gifaransa n’abari basanzwe mu Rwanda bize mu Kinyarwanda ntabwo byari byoroshye. Ndakubwiye ni ikizamini kimwe n’ibindi.

Twatangije amashuri muri Nzeri mu 1994, nakoze gahunda nyijyanye no muri guverinoma kugira ngo ize kubyemera byafashe igihe, bumvaga bidashoboka.

Ndabasobanurira hanyuma barambwira bati wabaye woroheje? Ndababwira nti ariko ndakeka ko dukwiye kugerageza kuko ababyeyi n’abana n’iki gihugu gikwiye kongera kugira icyizere cyo kubaho.

Ni bande bari bagushyigikiye icyo gihe mu bari muri Guverinoma?

Perezida wa Repubulika [Perezida Kagame] ari mu banshyigikiye cyane, aravuga ati mumureke agerageze kuko nanjye nari maze kuvuga nti mureke ngerageze nibyanga njyane na byo mushyireho undi.

Ni iki wihutiye gukora?

Natangije amashuri, icyo gihe hari Perefegitura, natangiriye mu Ruhengeri, icyo gihe yayoborwaga n’uwitwaga Kagiraneza Deus, nkora ku buryo tumenya ibigo byashobokaga kugira ngo bitangire, noneho aho tudafite abarimu tugashyiramo n’abanyeshuri barangizaga bashoboraga kwigisha.

Za UNICEF zirahurura, za GIZ mbese imiryango itari iya leta yose n’abanyamakuru baza kureba uburyo ibyo bintu bizahaho. Ibigo bitandatu byose turatangira barigisha, bigenda neza.

Mwakurikijeho he?

Umunsi wa kabiri tubikora i Byumba, hayoborwaga na Colonel Lizinde Théoneste na Musenyeri we ukinariho baradufashije cyane, tubikora kimwe n’uko twabikoze mu Ruhengeri, umunsi wa Gatatu tujya i Kibungo hari umugabo w’umukozi witwa Musoni Protais na Musenyeri Rubwejanga.

Rubwejanga yari n’inshuti yanjye na bo turakorana turabipanga birakora, umunsi wa kane tujya i Gitarama, tubikora uko twabikoze mu ntangiriro.

Ubwo byakirwaga gute hanze aha?

Ku munsi wa Gatanu ari na ho Inama ya Guverinoma yabaga, inkuru yari yasakaye Isi yose, bati ya Guverinoma itaranamara n’amezi abiri yakoze igikorwa cy’indashyikirwa, yatangije amashuri. Noneho ndakomeza, ni uko byagenze.

Nyuma y’umwaka umwe wahise ugirwa Minisitiri w’Intebe...

Ukurikije amasezerano ya Arusha, bavugaga ko Minisitiri w’Intebe azaturuka muri MDR, Twagiramungu yari yanditse muri ayo masezerano, Twagiramungu rero amaze kunanirwa inshingano, arasezera, bagombaga gushaka umuntu umusimbura.

Bashatse umuntu umusimbura rero ntabwo bari gusaba iryo shyaka ngo ribahe umuntu kanaka, byari bikomeye. Ariko barababwiye bati nimuduhe abantu bane, turahitamo umwe. Urumva icyo gihe njye nari Minisitiri kandi mfite n’amanota y’ibikorwa nari maze gukora.

Bivuze rero ko watowe?

Nk’ishyaka twakoze inama ya Biro Politiki, baratora, batora abantu bane, mu bantu bane hatowe uwitwaga Mbonimpa Jean Marie Vianney wari Ambasaderi w’u Rwanda mu Busuwisi; Mfizi Christophe wari Ambasaderi wacu i Paris, nkurikiraho mba uwa gatatu nari Minisitiri w’Uburezi, uwa kane yari Eugène Ndahayo, wari Umuyobozi ushinzwe ibikorwa bya Guverinoma muri Minisiteri y’Itumanaho.

Batanga bane, noneho FPR ihitamo Rwigema ari we njyewe. Ni uko nabaye Minisitiri w’Intebe, hari tariki 29 Kanama 1995.

Ni wowe wahabwaga amahirwe muri bose?

N’amaradiyo yari yamaze gutangaza ko ari njye n’ibyemezo bitarasohoka. Kuko ngira ngo nari Minisitiri w’Uburezi, maze kugira ibikorwa bigaragara, abantu bose ahari ni ko babyifuzaga.

Mu biganiro byo mu Rugwiro ubwo byumvikane ko na ho wari uhari

Mu nama zo mu Urugwiro nari mpari, nazigizemo uruhare rukomeye nari ndi Minisitiri w’Intebe.

Ni iki wazivugaho?

Inama zo mu Urugwiro, ni ikintu gikomeye kandi ni n’ikintu umuntu yashimira FPR kuko yahuje abantu batashoboraga guhura. Abantu bari aba UNAR muri za 1959, abari aba Sous-Chefs, abari muri za RADER mbese ihuza ibintu bitashoboraga guhura.

Ariko twaganiriye ku mateka y’u Rwanda, ibyatanyije abanyarwanda, ibishobora kongera kubahuza n’uburyo abantu bavugisha ukuri.

Ni gute usobanura umusingi wazo ku Rwanda rwa none?

Ni ukuri kw’Imana ni ikintu gikomeye mu bintu byubatse iki gihugu kuko zahujije abantu batashoboraga guhura, barongera baricarana barebana mu maso, bavuga amateka mbere y’umwaduko w’abazungu, igihe cy’Ubukoloni na nyuma ibintu bijya kuba nabi hakaza ubwicanyi cyane cyane Umwami Mutara Rudahigwa bamaze kumuhitanira i Bujumbura.

Ni ikintu gikomeye rero ngira ngo Inama zo mu Urugwiro abantu bari bakwiye kuzazandikaho ibitabo kuko hari abantu bari bahari bakuru, umuntu agize Imana bakinariho, umuntu agahera no ku byo abantu bibuka.

Mu 2001 wahunze igihugu, hari bahaye iki?

Njyewe icyo nari nkeneye ni ukugira ngo mbone ibyangombwa banyakire, kandi ibyo narabikoze. Maze kubigeraho ahasigaye njya mu mirimo yo gutunga umuryango wanjye nditonda, mba Umunyarwanda. Nk’Umunyarwanda ukunda igihugu cye.

Kandi abantu baranshatse kugira ngo banshyire muri ibyo bintu, mbese nanjye ngambanire igihugu, njye muri iyo mitwe ya politiki ndabihunga ndanabyanga.

Ubwo bagusabaga kubangamira igihugu mu buhe buryo?

Hari n’abanzaniye amafaranga ngo nandike ibitabo byo gusebya igihugu cyanjye, ndababwira nti ayo mafaranga ndayakeneye ariko ntabwo nabikora.

Nti nta kintu nasebya u Rwanda ntagizemo uruhare, urumva rero ni ukuvuga ngo ndasebya igihugu nayoboye, nabayemo Minisitiri w’Intebe, ni ukuvuga se ko ibyo ntakoze njyewe ari ibihe?

Waje kugaruka mu Rwanda ute? Bivugwa ko wabisabye Perezida Kagame… niko biri?

Nanjye ubwanjye n’umutimanama wanjye numvaga ko ngomba gutaha, aho mbisabiye na we rwose abyakirana umutima mwiza.

Ibyo nabyita ubutwari bukomeye kuko aho kugira ngo ube warabaye Minisitiri w’Intebe utahe urwana wataha wubaka. Uko gukunda igihugu ni byo byanyoboye.

Ariko ubu, umurongo u Rwanda rwahawe kubera ubuyobozi bwiza, imiyoborere myiza n’ibikorwa rumaze kugeraho, ni nde se utakwishimira kuza ahubwo kuba mu Rwanda?

Njye ndi Umudepite muri East African Community iyo tuvuganye na bagenzi bacu b’Abadepite baba abo muri Kenya, Tanzania n’Abagande, iyo bageze hano mu Rwanda barareba bakumirwa.

Bavuga iki?

Baravuga bati ni agahugu k’i Burayi bateruye baraza bagashyira muri Afurika. Ubwo se iryo shema urumva utaryishimira? Kandi rero nta muntu n’umwe ukunda iki gihugu, ukunda u Rwanda wakumva ko aho rugeze yakumva ko rukwiye gusubira inyuma. Ntabwo bishoboka, nta wabyemera kuko twe twishimira kuba Abanyarwanda.

Kubera uko u Rwanda, ruteye, ruyobowe, ibyo rumaze kugeraho, ubuyobozi rufite, wumva utakwishimira ko […] utanatekereza ko rukwiye gusubira inyuma.

Uyu munsi u Rwanda wifuza ni urumeze rute?

U Rwanda nifuza ni uru Rwanda ndimo kandi nkumva ko rukwiye gukomeza rugatera imbere kandi urwo nifuza ntabwo ari urwo bazampa, oya, ni urwo nzafatanya n’abandi kubaka. Tukajya inama tukavuga ngo turashaka kugera aha, tukahagera.

Ntabwo ari u Rwanda rw’impanuka, ni u Rwanda tugomba kubaka tukagera aho dushaka. Mu 1994 ndi Minisitiri nta telefone yabagaho, twakoreshaga ibyombo, nta mishahara twahembwaga, twahaga abarimu ibishyimbo, akawunga, umuceri n’ibindi kugira ngo abantu bongere batangire ibikorwa bundi bushya.

Ariko uko turiho ubu n’uko turiho, wabigereranya se n’icyo gihe? Ntabwo rero hari n’uwakwifuza ko byongera gusubira inyuma.

Cyera wajyaga hanze Umunyarwanda bakagufata nk’umwicanyi ariko ubu ugera hanze wavuga ko uri Umunyarwanda bati ba bantu batekereza neza, ba bantu b’abakozi, igihugu kiri ku murongo, gifite isuku,...

Ibyo rero tubikesha ubuyobozi bwiza, tubikesha Intore izirusha intambwe, kuba turi mu Itorero, tugatozwa, tukareba, tukagira ibyo dukunda tukabihitamo kandi tukabigeraho.

Dr. Rwigema Pierre Céléstin uhagarariye u Rwanda mu Nteko Ishinga Amategeko y’Afurika y’Iburasirazuba (EALA), yagarutse ku rugendo rwe muri politiki n'uko yabaye Minisitiri w'Uburezi nyuma gato ya Jenoside
Dr Pierre Célestin Rwigema avuga ko bitari byoroshye gutangiza amashuri nyuma ya Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi mu 1994
Dr Pierre-Célestin Rwigema yabaye Minisitiri w'Uburezi, Minisitiri w'Intebe kuri ubu ahagarariye u Rwanda muri EALA
Dr. Rwigema Pierre Céléstin mu Ugushyingo 2019 ubwo yahabwaga impamyabushobozi y’ikirenga mu bijyanye n'imiyoborere (Philosophy in Leadership and Governance)

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