Urwibutso rwa Amb. Ohlsson asangira bwa mbere na Kagame, kwagura umubano n’ibindi- Ikiganiro kirambuye

Yanditswe na Ishimwe Israel
Kuya 11 Ukwakira 2018 saa 05:12
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Jenny Ohlsson ni we wabaye Ambasaderi wa mbere wa Suède ufite ibiro mu Rwanda kuva mu 2016. Mbere ibikorwa bya dipolomasi y’ibihugu byombi byanyuzwaga muri ambasade za Nairobi na Kampala.

Nyuma y’imyaka ibiri ahamaze, Amb Ohlsson ni umwe mu bavuga ashize amanga urukundo afitiye urwa Gasabo.

Mu rugendo rwe nk’umudipolomate, Ambasaderi Jenny Ohlsson yakoze muri Minisiteri y’Ububanyi n’Amahanga muri Suède guhera mu 2002. Yanakoze mu Ishami rishinzwe Afurika muri Ambasade ya Suède i Pretoria n’Ibiro by’i Kigali (2007-2009).

Ambasaderi Ohlsson akunda imyidagaduro no kwitabira ibitaramo bya Kigali Jazz Junction bitumirwamo ibyamamare. Anogerwa no gusohokera Pili Pili, Papyrus n’ahandi, akizihirwa n’imijyi y’ubukerarugendo ya Rubavu na Musanze.

Si intyoza mu Kinyarwanda ariko azi amagambo make nka ‘Murakoze’, ‘Mwaramutse’, ‘Mwiriwe’, ‘Ni meza’, ‘Amakuru’, ‘izuba’, ‘ibanga’ na ‘Ndabakunda’.

Amb. Ohlsson asubiriza kuri Twitter abashaka guharabika igihugu n’umukuru wacyo, harimo aho yasubije Iain Campbell wavuze ko Aegis Trust ikora ubuvugizi kuri Suède na Kagame, yagereranyije na ‘Hitler wa Afurika’.

Ni ibintu ngo byamubabaje cyane, avuga ko abashaka kugoreka amateka bakwiye gukorwa n’ikimwaro.

Mu kiganiro kirambuye na IGIHE, Ambasaderi Ohlsson yagarutse ku rugendo rw’imyaka ibiri amaze mu Rwanda, ibihe byiza, ibyamugoye, imibanire y’ibihugu byombi, ifunguro rya mbere yasangiye na Perezida Kagame n’ibindi.

IGIHE: Waba uri umudipolomate wabigize umwuga?

Amb. Ohlsson: Yego, ndi umudipolomate, nize ibijyanye na Politiki kandi ndayikunda cyane. Mbere yo kuba umudipolomate mu gihe cyo kuruhuka nibandaga kuri politiki ariko nshishikazwa cyane n’ibirimo nk’amatora.

IGIHE: Waba uzi impamvu watoranyijwe guhagararira Suède mu Rwanda.

Amb. Ohlsson: Narabisabye, niko tubigenza muri Minisiteri y’Ububanyi n’Amahanga muri Suède. Mbere hari akazi ko kuyobora ibiro, nta ambasaderi wabaga hano.

Nabonye akazi ariko baza guhindura umwanya uba uwa ambasaderi. Nabwiwe kongera gusaba, numvaga bigoye kuko numvaga nkiri muto wo guhabwa izi nshingano. Sinacitse intege, narongeye ndasaba mbona akazi.

IGIHE: Ntabwo watunguwe?

Amb. Ohlsson: Nakoreye hano mbere. Mu myaka icumi ishize, nabaye mu Rwanda kuva mu 2007 kugeza mu 2009. Nari umuyobozi mu bya Politiki muri Ambasade. Guverinoma iteza imbere abagore n’abakiri bato. Nari mfite amakuru n’ibyo ngambirira ku Rwanda, ntekereza ko yaba ariyo mpamvu yatumye nkubona.

IGIHE: Nyuma y’imyaka ibiri utangiye inshingano, ni iki kikuri ku mutima?

Amb. Ohlsson: Ni ibihe byiza mu buryo ngereranya u Rwanda mu myaka icumi na none. Iterambere ririgaragaza mu nzego nyinshi. Ni ahantu heza ho gukorera.

Birumvikana hari igihe haba n’imbogamizi, tugirana impaka n’abandi ariko nkunda gukorera hano kuko hari icyerekezo kizima.

IGIHE: Mu magambo yawe ntiwihishira ku rukundo ufitiye u Rwanda. Bagenzi bawe babyakira bate?

Amb. Ohlsson: Ndatekereza ari neza. Ni ukureba ibihari n’ibyagezweho. Hashobora kuvuka ibibazo kuko dutekereza bitandukanye ariko nanjye ndigengesera mu magambo yanjye.

Sinakwandika nzamura impaka kuri Twitter cyangwa ingingo zatuma ndakara. Niba hari ikintu ntemera cyangwa ibwiriza mfiteho igitekerezo ngerageza kubivuga ariko sinabishyira kuri Facebook na Twitter.

Igikenewe ni ukuganira n’abafatanyabikorwa n’abarebwa n’ikibazo. Ntekereza ko aribyo bikwiye. Ntushobora kuganira neza mu gihe umenyesha gusa mu nyandiko zimeze nko kwibasira. Ikiganiro ni cyo kiboneye muri politiki no mu mibanire ya buri munsi.

IGIHE: Ni izihe ngingo utekereza ko zigoye kuganiraho mu Rwanda?

Amb. Ohlsson: Ntekereza ko ari ukuvuga kuri politiki ishamikiye ku mateka. Bishobora kuba kuri demokarasi, uburenganzira bwa muntu n’ibifitanye isano n’amateka y’u Rwanda.

Kuri njye kuganira ku ngingo ijyanye na Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi mu 1994 n’ibihe bya nyuma yayo hari igihe bigorana.

Ni ingenzi kuganira kuri izi ngingo ariko buri gihe nshidikanya ku buryo byakorwamo. Sinshaka kuba umudipolomate ubwira buri wese icyo gukora cyangwa mvuge ko mfite ibisubizo byose.

Amb Ohlsson avuga ko hari byinshi byiza yasanze mu Rwanda n'undi munyamahanga yasura

IGIHE: Wamenye ute ko iyi ngingo yitonderwa cyane?

Amb. Ohlsson: Nabonye hari igisa no gushidikanya mu badipolomate. Nibwira ko bishobora kuba bituruka ku mateka u Rwanda rwanyuzemo.

Iyo abadipolomate bo mu bihugu byo hanze ya Afurika bavuze ibintu hari igihe bumvwa nabi nk’abashaka gutanga ibitekerezo nk’ubukoloni bushya. Narabibonye ngerageza kubyitwararika.

Birambabaza kuko abambasaderi bavuga ibintu bakumvikana nabi kandi nta mugambi mubisha babikoranye. Akenshi byakirwa mu buryo butari bwo.

Ibitekerezo byo kubahiriza uburenganzira bwa muntu bishobora kumvikana nk’ibigamije kugenzura no gutegeka ibihugu ibyo bikora cyangwa nk’imyumvire ko abantu bose muri Toronto, Butare, Stockholm na Mumbai banganya agaciro.

Ushobora gusobanura ikintu kimwe ukakibyazamo ibitekerezo bibiri bitandukanye. Biranshavuza cyane iyo igisobanuro cy’amagambo gisobanurwa hashingiwe ku wayavuze.

IGIHE: Byaba byarakubayeho?

Amb. Ohlsson: Amagambo ya mbere nashyize kuri Twitter nayanditse nyuma y’Inama y’Igihugu y’Umushyikirano. Navuze ko ‘Cyari ikiganiro cyiza. Ibihugu byinshi byiha intego ariko u Rwanda rufite ihambaye.’

Numvaga ari igitekerezo cyiza ariko hari uwansubije ko ‘Mwebwe abanyaburayi, kuki buri gihe mwumva ko Abanyarwanda batandukanye n’abandi kandi badasanzwe?’

Nahise nsiba ubutumwa kuko nagize urujijo kuko hari uwo amagambo yababaje. Hari ibyo nize. Abantu basobanura bitandukanye ariko iyo uzi amateka ugerageza gukoresha amagambo y’intoranywa.

Ugomba kubikora mu buryo buboneye ku buryo ubutumwa bwumvikana neza ntunajye guterana amagambo.

IGIHE: Uhuye na Ambasaderi mushya hano, ni ibiki by’ingenzi wamusangiza?

Amb. Ohlsson: Namubwira ko ari ukugerageza kumenyana n’Abanyarwanda benshi. Rimwe bisaba igihe ngo abantu bagirirane icyizere, ubucuti no kubwubaka.

Kumenya u Rwanda no gukora akazi ntibishingira mu gusoma raporo n’amakuru gusa. Ugomba kumenya abantu.

Nanabwira abadipolomate bashya ko bagomba kwitondera igicucu cy’amateka n’uko afatwa n’umuryango mpuzamahanga nyuma ya Jenoside.

Kutagirirana icyizere, ubukoloni n’ibindi bintu, rimwe na rimwe bigira ingaruka ku mubano wacu. Ni ngombwa kubimenya. Izo ni zo nama zanjye. Hari abo namaze kuzisangiza.

IGIHE: Bagusubije iki, baba babifata nk’ibidasanzwe?

Amb. Ohlsson: Oya, ntabwo barabivuga. Abo muri Suède bemera ko kubaka urukundo bifata igihe kirekire nk’uko na hano bimeze. Ntabwo ushobora kuba inshuti n’umuntu umunsi umwe, mugomba gufata igihe kandi ni nako bigenda ku banyamahanga muri Suède.

IGIHE: Wiyumvaga ute umunsi wa mbere uhura na Perezida Kagame?

Amb. Ohlsson: Byari byiza ariko nari nafite impungenge kuko ari ubwa mbere duhuye. Navuye mu Biro bya Perezida, Minisitiri w’Ububanyi n’Amahanga anyongorera ko yishimira gusangira ifunguro rya saa sita.

Sinasobanukiwe! Natunguwe no gusanga nicaye ku meza amwe na Perezida. Byari bishya kuri njye. Ambasaderi mushya w’imyaka 41 yicaranye ku meza mato na Perezida n’umugore we!

Ryari ifunguro ridasanzwe. Nta ngingo yihariye nari mfite yo kuganiraho kuko sinari mbizi ariko cyabaye ikiganiro cyiza kuri politiki zacu, ibiduhuza n’ibitandukanya ibihugu byombi.

IGIHE: Ni iki wibuka kuri uwo munsi cyagusigaye mu mutwe?

Amb. Ohlsson: [Aseka] Si ibanga. Abaduhaga amafunguro badusabye kujya gufata ‘dessert’ ariko Perezida avuga ko atayishaka.

Numvaga ntamerewe neza kuko nari nabonye imbuto nziza zo mu Rwanda, ntegereje kumva uburyohe bwazo.

Sinashoboraga kujya gufata dessert njyenyine kuko sinari nzi uko ibintu bigenda. Yabonye (Kagame) uko narebaga araseka, ahita avuga ati «Ni byo turafata dessert. Tugende."

Kuri njye cyari ikimenyetso cy’urukundo kuko numvaga ntanyuzwe. Ibyo twaganiriye mbigize ibanga.

IGIHE: Hari abavuga ko ateye ubwoba. Ese nawe ni ko wabibonye?

Amb. Ohlsson: Oya. Ryari ifunguro ry’abantu batanu. Wari umunsi mukuru kuri njye. Nari ntaritabira ibirori byo gutanga inyandiko zinyemerera guhagararira igihugu. Sinatekereje ku by’ubwoba cyangwa ibibyerekeye. Narishimye cyane!

IGIHE: Umubano w’u Rwanda na Suède ubu uhagaze gute?

Amb. Ohlsson: Ni mwiza nta kibazo dufitanye. Ubaye ari mubi naba mbizi. Ni umubano mushya mwiza.

IGIHE: Ni uruhe ruhare rwawe nk’umufatanyabikorwa mu iterambere ry’u Rwanda?

Amb. Ohlsson: Twatangiye n’imishinga myinshi yo kubaka nyuma ya Jenoside. Ubu turi no mu bindi byiciro bifitiye igihugu akamaro. Tumaze igihe dukorana na za kaminuza mu bushakashatsi.

Tunakomeza kwimakaza uburenganzira bwa muntu na demokarasi no gushyigikira imishinga ijyanye n’itangazamakuru no kwirinda amakimbirane.

Nubwo ikomeye ariko dukorana na Never Again Rwanda na Aegis Trust. Mu myaka ishize twanagerageje gushyigikira ihangwa ry’imirimo mu Rwanda.

IGIHE: Hari ibiganiro waba waragiranye na Perezida Kagame uyobora AU ku mubano wa Suède na Afurika?

Amb. Ohlsson: Tuganira kuri izi ngingo cyane. Suède iri mu kanama ka Loni gashinzwe umutekano kandi tugerageza kugaragaza kuba ijwi ry’ibihugu bya Afurika.

Kuki? Ibitekerezo biva muri Afurika ni ingenzi mu biganiro by’aka kanama kuko ingingo nyinshi ziga ku makimbirane aharangwa. Ubu ntibisanzwe rero kuko u Rwanda ruyoboye AU.

IGIHE: Ni he mutekereza ko u Rwanda rwabafasha cyane mu kunoza imikoranire?

Amb. Ohlsson: Ni ukubungabunga amahoro. Hari imikoranire mu masomo n’amahugurwa ariko nifuza ko yaba menshi kuko ingabo zanyu (u Rwanda) zifitiwe icyizere n’ubunararibonye kubera ibikorwa byazo muri Afurika. […] Ahandi twakorana ni mu bijyanye no kwihuza kw’akarere, isoko rusange, iterambere rirambye n’ibijyanye n’imihindagurikire y’ibihe.

IGIHE: Ni iki wigiye ku Rwanda wasangiza amahanga?

Amb. Ohlsson: Biragoye kuvuga ingingo imwe. Hari ibintu byinshi nigiye aho nsura, mpakura ibitekerezo byinshi. Mfite inshuti yanjye y’Umupolisi wasuye Isange One Stop Center i Kigali. Yambwiye ko hari ibyo yize ashaka kuzasangiza Polisi y’Igihugu muri Suède.

IGIHE: Mu busesenguzi bwawe ni gute wavuga u Rwanda?

Amb. Ohlsson: Mukerarugendo uvuye i Burayi aje muri Afurika hari ahantu hashobora gushyira ubuzima bwe mu kaga. Aha siko bimeze. Yego hari abakwita “Umuzungu”. Byambayeho ariko uba utekanye kandi wigenga. Ni ikintu cyiza nabwira abantu.

Nzabwira abantu ko hari ubwuzuzanye n’uburinganire, ingagi ndetse abantu benshi bashaka kumenya byimbitse amateka y’u Rwanda.

Abatera ubwoba kuko byoroshye kumva. Iyo ubabwiye intambwe mu iterambere, ubwiyunge birashimisha.

Simbahata ariko mbabwira ko nibashaka gusura iki gihugu, baziga byinshi. Ntiwakwibuza izi mpinduka ariko ni ahantu heza ho kujya no kubona inshuti. Nzabibabwira.

IGIHE: Uhuye na Perezida Kagame mu kiganiro cyihariye wamuganiriza iki?

Amb. Ohlsson: Namuganiriza ku mubano hagati y’u Rwanda n’u Burayi. Ni ikintu ntekerezaho cyane. Ni ukumenya uko twakwigira ku mateka mu kubaka imikoranire ihamye.

Nanamubaza ku mateka ajyanye n’ubwiyunge, demokarasi, ubwisanzure muri politiki n’ibindi u Rwanda rwahisemo rwishakamo ibisubizo no gusana igihugu cyashegeshwe na Jenoside, rukabinengerwa.

Suède iha u Rwanda inkunga y’agera kuri miliyoni 230 z’ama-‘Swedish krona’, agera kuri miliyari 22 Frw ku mwaka.

Mu Rwanda hari Abanya- Suède 50 mu gihe Abanyarwanda 1500 baba muri iki gihugu cy’i Burayi.

Jenny Ohlsson ni we wabaye Ambasaderi wa mbere wa Suède ufite ibiro mu Rwanda kuva mu 2016

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